to me would be being able to tolerate those different from you, and their styles.

The new FISA bill means that the government can keep spying even if the courts say no.  The courts involvement is "superficial".

I think yuo said it well, David.  Patriotism is about what we do as citizens to participate in our democracy, and not the silly symbols many people use to claim patriotism. 

I am tired of my neighbors waving a flag on the 4th of July, and not willing to discuss anything with a thought other than what they heard from Faux news. 

It is disgusting that we seem to have state run media pushing symbols ahead of real patriotism.  The flag pin thing is utter Bushshit.  Supporting the war no matter what is too. 

My neighbors think it is unpatriotic to stand against anything our President stands for, and if he stands against Congress, than it would be unpatriotic to stand with anyone in Congress that stands against the President.  I just don't get it.

make sure they hear from the grassroots about domestic spying with no redress in the courts

Did anyone see Obama's speech on patriotism the other day?  It was great.  he said alot of these similar things and gotlampooned for it in the media. 

His life is his reason for being patriotic.  Coming from a broken home, a mixed marriage, humbel roots, and getting involved in his community to the point of being the Presidential nominee--I can't think of a better example of a patriotic person than one that took every advantage not given to himto become a great leader.

Obama is is the definition of patriotic!

I have to say that I do feel somewhat patriotic when I watched fireworks tonight. I was thinking about how long fireworks have been around, even before weaponry, and that they are still here. We are a peaceful country, and fireworks on te 4th represent all of the 'bombs bursting in air' that we have had over the years in just and unjust wars. It reminds me of teh Revolutionary War and what our founders fought for.

Just because I feel patriotic watching and reminiscing--doesn't make it a patriotic action--we should stop this FISA thing NOW!!!

peopel about what they think is patriotic. I was reading a similar post on CNN, and thought the answers were crazy. Here is the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/04/patriotism.opinions.irpt/index.html

was registering new voters:-)

is standing up to the BFA Gestapo censors.

Thanks for the post David. It's important for us to work through these different values like patriotism and articulate the progressive definition and vision of the word. And to contrast it clearly with the conservative definition.

You hit some good points with your definition.

For me, in a simplistic quick definition, Patriotism for conservative is a receptacle for them to project  all their Failed Conservative Values into:, Authoritarianism, hierarchy, control, obedience,  extreme individualism, secrecy, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, greed, dogmatism, etc. etc.

For progressives its projecting caring, empathy, community, equality, justice, responsibility,   etc. into it.

So when conservatives say we need to be patriotic, they mean we should be supporting their set of failed conservative values.  When progressices say they value patriotism, they mean they support these deep seated american values of caring, empathy, community, justice, equality, responsibility,  etc.  

More here: http://scottyurb.blogspot.com/2008/07/are-you-a-patriot.html