PEACE is first!!

Howard please phone home!

Kucinich/Feingold '08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C9FioGsIYU

Why are our Democrats working with right wing groups and with people like Lindsey Graham to "fix" Social Security? Didn't Hillary just imply a while ago that she did not want to talk about it because there was nothing wrong with it?   Well, a search of the DLC PPI site turns up more...that they do appear to be planning change...just using different words.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1609

Lindsey Graham even quotes Reagan, and we all know how Reagan felt about government programs.

Just stopping by for a minute and wnated to answer a question I have seen a few times in the comments over the last few days.

Question: Why did we take down the live stats that show where the Gore voter's second choice votes land.

Answer: Suspence.

What's the fun if you know everything all at once?  This way when we annouce on Nov. 6th, there will be some news to make out of it.  

We may change up the reporting a bit this week too, just to make it more interesting for everyone. Maybe we'll show you what the vote looks like for DFA members in Iowa. NH? CA? FL?

Our next "Vote for Me" candidate message is Senator Chris Dodd. Expect to see that Tuesday.

In the meantime, I'm out the door to go play some Disc Golf in the incredibly beautiful weather we have today here in Vermont. Who can say no to a walk in Waterbury on a day like this?

-Charles 

Charles Chamberlain
Sun, 10/28/07
12:58 pm

Were these answers from HQ? I would like to see the vote for the endorsement without Gore also posted.

Unless Gore enters the race, that is the REAL RESULT which will cause certain actions. Not a national endorsement but recruitment letters by state for each candidate, and possibly a recruitment letter nationally if one gets more than 50% of the vote.

Thanks again Mr.Chamberlain for paying attention!!

Everyone voting should realize that their vote is dropped IF they vote for Gore all three times. At least make your vote count by voting for a DIFFERENT candidate in the 2nd place position.

Charles, have an IceCream am Ben and Jerry's there and then hop on over to Green Mountain Coffee to warm you up. Enjoy.

Just saw this one.

Mr. Gore, We Are Here Without You
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zd0cH-Bk-IQ

Everyone should realize, if you vote for who you prefer, it will show you voted for that candidate you prefer!!!

"It is better to be hated for what you are," Gore said in a eulogy to his father nine years ago, "than to be loved for what you are not."

On topic, the Ethanol craze is enriching corporate farms and driving up the price of everything else ( breakfast foods, corn syrup, tortillas etc.) made from corn. also, ethanol from cereal grains makes little or no net contribution to our energy inventory).

3.

floridagal

I don't equate the collusion of Tom Carper with Lindsey Graham as much to worry about. Carper is about as right-wing a Dem can get without actually switching to the party.

As for Hillary's remarks on SS, they may be confusing when one statement clashes with another as so many of them do. But for a Democrat to suggest privitizing SS would be a death sentence for their entire career as well as any Dem who supports it.

When the Repugs talk about "savings accounts" that's what amusing me. We already have a number of excellent savings accounts with tax incentives like IRA's and Roth's. 401K's are also good to have these days as long as one can keep the control of them. These plans are also protected from lawsuits and even from having to reveal them at all.

For SS, there are many easy and painless ways to "fix" it for the future generations. One is to simply remove the cap on which payroll taxes are to be paid and/or raise the payroll taxes themselves. The former is the better since taxes would continue to be collected from all the income of the very highest income earners.

Just my Sunday take on it.

11.

I would agree with that. But Gore is not a candidate. If and when he ever is, we are here for him.

14.  Ok, about savings accounts.  Ideally, capitalism assumes that an enterprise will set aside some of its profit for future investment, enlargement and renewal.  What seems to have happened in recent times is that whatever increased wealth (profit) was realized was dissipated on inflated administrative costs and, most recently, the acquisition of competitors in order to create a monopoly situation and "insure" profit by restricting the availabilty of product in the market.  And the monopoly situation has resulted in a general decrease in quality.  (No current Ford truck, for example, gets as good gas milage as my 20 year old model).  Finally, because there are no profits available for expansion and/or innovation, there has been an effort to tap the savings of someone else--pension funds, retirement programs, etc.  Never mind that the ordinary bloke really doesn't earn enough to have a surplus to set aside.  

Biofuels is an excellent way to turn our organic waste and mass into clean-burning energy in the form of alcohol and gases.

those of us out here in the west know the value of that. These many once-small towns have many houses that were set up to burn wood when it was more plentiful. Nowadays many burn their garbage in wood burning stoves which includes plastic packaging, toxic print, and other toxic chemicals from countless polymers and chemicals in our consumerism.

The pollution is aweful in winter and these stoves need to be replaced with cleaner burning units, hopefully using the same garbage to make that cleaner burning fuel, while discarding the toxic chemical that often come with them.

This is all biofuel technology and needs to start now, not only for carbon reduction but for health and pollution control as well.

Clifford Day is a strong environmentalist and a member of our Platform Committee.

you can bet ethanol will be a big topic of discussion at our platform hearings

I hate it though when I see a discussion of ethanol that doesn't address three big cost/benefit items.

1. a corn field is a carbon sink/solar collector

2.the by-product is an animal feed of the highest value

3. there is already in place a vast and advanced infrastructure for the production of corn

efficiency equations of the thermal units leave out the similar or worse crude to gasoline refining

the corn fields don't need a forward deployed army at war to protect

profits are made in America and stay in America

I view it as a temporary fix like formula being used for a growing baby instead of breast milk so a mom can resume her career.

one step closer to weaning

I still think Biden may be the best choice in some respects, although he probably won't make it. I thought others had better health care plans, but nobody, including Biden, has anything good, except perhaps Kucinich.

However, I think Biden would be much better for solving the Iraq problem than Kucinich. He has a perspective from working with the Bosnian problem, which is culturally analogous, and his latest rhetoric has included immediate withdrawal while simultaneously seeking a regional/internal coalition for a political solution.

Biden does what he says he will do.

He has said that if he does not make the top three in Iowa, he will drop out of the race. If he does get up there, he has my vote. I really don't care if he has hair plugs or not. So far, that's about the worst thing people here can say about him.

Our next "Vote for Me" candidate message is Senator Chris Dodd. Expect to see that Tuesday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dodd had an excellent Sunday morning on TV.

why would you hold on to a message, Charles?

I'll be shocked if any candidate wins an endorsement, but since the national press is following the story now at least give everyone an equal chance.

SS: I paid into SS on/off for 30 years and get X monthly from them now. I paid into a 401K w/ matching funds from an employer for about 15 years and get very apx. the same X - OK - 2/3 X now as interest AND I own/control the capital backing it up. The really good thing about SS is it is mandatory. Except it really isn't for some - teachers, gov't workers pay into different systems w/ different results. bbl

PS I agree that they should remove/raise the cap on who pays into SS Joan

Biden is an excellent alternative to Hillary for those that do see a more "forward" role for our armed forces Fred. I don't think he would have trouble getting the Pentagon to take civilian orders from him.

although he probably won't make it. I

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Probably?   Come on Fred...............th guy never stood a chance and was doing his A-typical grand standing all along.................he likes to hear himself speak.................wasted his time IMO

Phil Specht

1. a corn field is a carbon sink...

==========
A carbon "recycler" would be a technically more descriptive definition of this process.

the Social Security contribution that I make for my employees is pretty much the only savings plan they have at the low skill end of my work force, my longest tenured employee has a mortgage and equity in his own home and that will be paid for before retirement by him, Social Security is also an important disability program

9 - Linda*in*SFNM
Sun, 10/28/07  1:07 pm

Charles, have an IceCream am Ben and Jerry's there and then hop on over to Green Mountain Coffee to warm you up. Enjoy.

------

Green Mountain Coffee is now just another cup-a-joe - you can buy it in almost any gas station or McDonald's.  for a REAL, small-batch roasted Vermont coffee (been around for 23+ years) that is ROASTED DAILY, check out Brown & Jenkins Trading Company:

http://www.brownjenkins.com/

the absolute freshest and best coffees I have had and they have more than 100 blends, organics, flavors, etc. to choose from in any grind you could want and most are also available in decaf.  they also have a coffee club that allows you to have any coffees delievered on any schedule that fits your needs.  it's one of the 'best kept secrets in Vermont' but they're known all over the country! 

and although Ben & Jerry's went corporate, they still make some of the best ice cream on the market so I higly recommend them, too!  so have some B&J coffee with some B&J ice cream!

Phil Specht

1. a corn field is a carbon sink...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

root mass and organic matter from the rest of the plant stays in the field and just the kernals leave, increasing the carbon in the soil

a corn field is indeed a carbon sink

23.Michael Ellis

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Probably? Come on Fred...he likes to hear himself

================

Either way I don't think he is wasting his time. His ideas on federalization need lots of work and explanation, since there is so much misunderstanding, and disinformation about what it is.

Ideas and organization concepts, community ideals, etc. are the best thing we (the Western culture) can contribute to these people, but they must do the implementation.

the same is not true of a soybean field, and biodeisel is less sustainable from that crop, but there is no reason not to recycle cooking oil after it has been used as fuel

industrialization of agriculture and crop choices and tenure on the land and who pockets the profits are part of a much more complex set of questions related to biofuels

they have accrued to the landowners so far which may or may not be the farmer of the land and that has been compunded by farm subsidy payment which also go to the landowner rather than the farmer

I credit Biden with answering the question "do the Democrats have a plan for leaving Iraq?" yes and the Senate approved it.

he is a bright articulate guy who makes a good Committee Chair

five or six others would probably get more troops out quicker, and the long term effects are worthy of debate

Biden has been a positive addition to the race.

I'm still giving long odds but now they might be 25-1 instead of 40-1

20.  I would guess Phil that the message is not done yet. Everything that comes out of the shop is well prepared and they just haven't had time to put it together.  They're also working on a video for DFA that I have been bugging them about.  Dodd's got a good cyber crew, but this stuff takes a lot of work.  When you're doing a video, it really helps if you can do it in one take and the person manning the camera can do cuts on the fly, because, if you have to edit after the fact, getting the images and the sound in synch is a real bitch.  Images and sound run on different tracks and while editing the images is easy, getting the sound right is really hard.  Dodd speaks well, but he has a habit of adding "here" more often than one might like to hear.  So, they probably have to choose between quick turn around or editing the extraneous out.

Just my two cents. 

21.

annilow

You are right about the government workers.

I spent some years working for the Postal Service but at the time we could not contribute to SS because they were then under the government plan.

When I left I took out everything I had coming from that plan because, as I still had some years to work, they paid absolutely no interest on it.

And so, my SS is without the benefit of those USPS years. It would have made my income a lot more if the government plan hadn't gobbled it up.

since the series has one more game I'll use a baseball analogy for the way I look at the Democratic field.

If you are playing over .500 at the All Star Break you are still in the hunt.

if you are in the best division in baseball, and still at .500 and it is after Labor Day your chances go down, and you will never actually win the pennant playing one game over .500, even though you are a "winning" team

31.

Dodd also has the habit of adding, redundantly IMO, the words "in my view" that are not necessary and actually take away the forcefulness of his remarks, again IMO.

As I watched him this morning I thought about dropping a note at the website but who knows if they ever read those things. If you have an IN with Dodd or the website nannies, perhaps you agree with that and would make the suggestion to him.

27.Phil Specht

a corn field is indeed a carbon sink
===============

Not disputing this and it is indeed both, but to include the word "recycle" would be a better innoculation against the misunderstanding that is contributes to the greenhouse effect, that is, adding to the atmospheric carbon accumulation.

THE MAGIC NUMBER IS 41

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_ron_corv_071022_the__22magic_number_22_i.htm

THIS IS REPETITIVE BUT IT BEARS REPEATING:

The magic number is 41, not 60. What am I talking about? I'm talking about the fact it takes only 41 Senators to kill any bill in the Senate.

In other words, 41 Senate Democrats could have ALREADY ENDED THIS WAR by their 41 selves, by simply filibustering Bush's warfunding bills. Such an option is an old, tried and true tactic used by both parties in the Senate. Each party has more than the 41 Senators needed to block each other's bills. Currently, each party has 49 Senators and two "independents."

THEREFORE, I reiterate: 41 Democratic Senators could have already ended this war by preventing Bush's war appropriations bills from even coming to the Senate floor for a vote. THE PROBLEM IS, the Democratic Party refuses to cut funding to this war. Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi flat out stated that, "Democrats will not cut funding to this war." The problem with this Democratic Party zero-sum position is history - American history; the ONLY WAY our troops have been brought home since the inception of the War Powers Act is when Congress completely cut ALL funds to the war or military action in question; and each time, it was AGAINST the sitting U.S. President's will.

One of the silliest arguments void of one iota of logic is the infamous bi-partisan claim that we can't cut funding to the troops because we would be harming the troops by cutting funds to our troops in the field. This pro-war bi-partisan mantra can be heard anytime someone suggests cutting funds to the troops. Hillary, Obama and Edwards have all three VOWED never to cut funding to the troops. Obama just voted AGAIN, for the umpteenth time to continue funding The Big Red War Machine, yet his campaign is going on another, "I'm different from Hillary" mediablitz.

It's truly amazing how Democrats have CONvinced Americans that to REMOVE American soldiers from Iraq would be MORE HARMFUL than TO KEEP THEM IN IRAQ! Unbelievable pro-war doublespeak.

Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Biden and others, love to tell the Big Fat Lie to the American people that Democrats do not have the votes needed to stop this war - that it is the Republicans' fault - we need more Republican votes, otherwise, we're dead in the water, stuck in Iraq.

When I call Hillary and the others "LIARS," I do NOT mean it figuratively; I mean it LITERALLY.

These guys are liars, plain and simple. The magic number is NOT 60, or 67, as Joe Biden claims; the Magic Number is 41 folks, and don't ever forget it. It's not about getting 60 votes to pass a bill Senate Democrats and Republicans can agree upon, it's about using 41 existing Senate Democrat votes to kill Bush's multi-billion dollar warfunding bill

34.Joan* In*Florida

Dodd also has the habit of adding, redundantly IMO, the words "in my view"
================

reminiscent of the ill-fated "I believe" ? LOL

37.Huron John

Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Biden and others, love to tell the Big Fat Lie to the American people that Democrats do not have the votes needed to stop this war - that it is the Republicans' fault - we need more Republican votes, otherwise, we're dead in the water, stuck in Iraq
===================

If we want to lose the next POTUS election. the "Abandoning the troops in the field" mantra of the right, will not help with swing voters, that will guarantee another four years of occupation (unless we can get 2/3 of both houses)

Though Americans seem to hate the idea of using nuclear power, I believe that this will be the way the entire world will be heading as is the European countries who recycle used waste quite efficiently.

There are leaders in our country who used to think that there was no room for nuclear who are now realizing that in this era of climate change, global warming and greenhouse gas concerns, nuclear does deserve to be considered.

Time for Gore to speak up on the advantages of GREEN nuclear power.

36.

good point Fred:)

paygo the supplemental and let Bush veto and then the war ends because Bush refuses to pay for it

don't bring it back up for a vote, take it to the election

the people are on our side out in the country

beltway myopia has set in

38. If we want to lose the next POTUS election. the "Abandoning the troops in the field" mantra of the right, will not help with swing voters, that will guarantee another four years of occupation (unless we can get 2/3 of both houses) 

That's republicrat BS, pure and simple. If the Democrats can find the spine to cut off funding, they will enjoy a surge of support, in contrast to the 11% their cowardly whining, lying, and capitulation has generated since last November's election.

To repeat:

One of the silliest arguments void of one iota of logic is the infamous bi-partisan claim that we can't cut funding to the troops because we would be harming the troops by cutting funds to our troops in the field. This pro-war bi-partisan mantra can be heard anytime someone suggests cutting funds to the troops.

This is almost NOVEMBER!

Tropical Storm Noel Forms Over Atlantic
Storm Warnings Issued For Haiti, Dominican Republic

POSTED: 7:58 am EDT October 28, 2007
UPDATED: 2:35 pm EDT October 28, 2007

MIAMI -- Tropical Storm Noel has formed near Haiti. And it's threatening to bring heavy rain through the Caribbean.

Noel is the season's 14th named storm. It has top winds of 50 mph.

The storm has prompted the governments of Jamaica, Haiti and Cuba to post storm watches or warnings. Forecasters warn the slow-moving system could send flash floods down hills stripped of


vegetation in Haiti.



Three U.S. senators who'd been in Haiti to survey damage from an earlier storm have had to cut short their visit. Sens. Tom Harkin, Jeff Bingaman and Bob Corker left Haiti Saturday evening.

The National Hurricane Center in Miami said Noel is expected to pour 10 inches of rain on Jamaica.

As of 11 a.m. EDT, the storm was pouring heavy rains on Hispaniola, the island that the countries of Haiti and the Dominican Republic share. Its center was located about 220 miles southwest of Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic and about 145 miles south of Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

The NHC said the storm was moving west-northwest at near 7 mph with maximum wind speeds near 35 mph. It is predicted to turn to the northeast after hitting Cuba on Tuesday and likely move off the Atlantic coast of Florida after that.

39.Joan* In*Florida
40.

Time for Gore to speak up on the advantages of GREEN nuclear power
=============

Thanks, Joan.
The cost of "safe" nuclear, (if there is such a thing relatively speaking but not in the absolute)is so high that I don't think it is considered a panacea, because as wind and solar, and biofuels become cheaper they will eclipse it economically.

Wind and solar will have kinetic "batteries" too for evening and cloudy days, in the form of water bodies/drain-towers, that can store water for water turbines, same technology dams use.

In that sense, I don't think we have anything to fear by encouraging the R & D for recycling the nuclear waste and maintaining the present nuclear reactors, but new ones should be few and far between.

41.Phil Specht

paygo the supplemental and let Bush veto and then the war ends because Bush refuses to pay for it

=================
pay-go is a good political alternative to a cut-off standoff. It combines fiscal responsibility with an anti-occupation message.

Most conservative swing voters are fiscal conservatives, IMO.

figure out a way to burn up current nuclear weapons inventory as fuel and go for it

ban the mining of uranium

46. Phil Specht

figure out a way to burn up current nuclear weapons inventory
================

The French are way ahead of us in this technology, but after "freedom fries" don't expect them to volunteer their trade secrets on the cheap, or even at all.

lol!  Edward's response to Colbert's attack:

CLAIM: Edwards abandoned South Carolina when he was one year old.

FACT: Edwards was born in South Carolina, learned to walk in South Carolina, learned to talk to in South Carolina, and will kick Stephen Colbert's New York City butt in South Carolina.

"Stephen Colbert claims to represent a new kind of politics, but today we see he's participating in the slash and burn politics that has no place in American discourse. The truthiness is, as the candidate of Doritos, Colbert's hands are stained by corporate corruption and nacho cheese. John Edwards has never taken a dime from salty food lobbyists and America deserves a President who isn't in the pocket of the snack food special interests."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/28/edwards-responds-to-colbe_n_70142.html

re: paygo the supplemental and let Bush veto and then the war ends because Bush refuses to pay for it

I like the idea but what if Bush does paygo the supplemental by cutting funding for some of our most important and vulnerable programs?  it would be a win/win for him and I don't trust him NOT to do that.  perhaps I'm missing something?

The BUSH has stated that if we cut off funding for the 'war' , i.e., the troops - he will pull it out of other very necessary - LIFE SAVING  areas from our troops to keep HIS war going.  And then - he SMIRKS.   ...Considering that he never got them the right bullet proof vests or armored humvees in the first place - and the MRAPS are just now going in to save some....it has cost HUNDREDS OF OUR SOLDIER'S LIVES... he, George W. Bush, has caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people~!    He has no soul.   

To the Republicans, it's like playing with a bunch of plastic soldiers on their desk tops.  INHUMAN - UNPATRIOTIC - CORPORATE OWNED - LOSERS.   They don't dare see real pictures of body bags - they don't dare look at pictures of hundreds of thousands of dead innocent Iraqi's.    And the magic number is --- a dozen or so REPUBLICANS who know the truth, know they're causing our soldiers to die needslessly --- and still vote with this horrible President.  And thus -- let his threat to further harm our troops STAND.   If they would stand up as real Americans - THEY could stop the Bush threats, vetos and smirks.    We would be pulling out of Iraq.  

However - the pressure from the Democrats and America people is working!   Notice the decrease in U.S. deaths.... it's mandatory.  The sad part is  they're having our soldiers back off, no house to house fighting and - just letting our F-16's and bombers come in and bomb whole buildings....civilians and all.  

GOD help the Democrats chop through all the dirty tricks, secrecy and manipulation of these digusting Republicans.  The American people will never forget.  I predict the END of the Republican party.

paygo the supplemental by rescinding the Bush tax cuts

Ultimately in the U.S., it will be the largest present wholesalers of power that will determine how much nuclear power plants will be built and how much of the market will be nuclear-powered.

Wind power having reasonable access to land to provide it hasn't really be addressed that I know of.

Recycled nuclear, solar and wind will compete in various markets just as oil, natural gas and coal do now. The bottom line will be one of the determinates.

34.  They do read the web site.  I know because a particularly critical (unflattering) comment of mine was removed.  LOL

I told them they needed to get a new speech writer for some of the "statements," 

OK, personal admission.  I don't really care which Democrat gets the nomination and is elected the next President.  (The Republicans are done for this round and they know it.)  What I care about is that the nominee is straight with the American people, admits where we fucked up and recognizes that the people are in charge.  The rise of the totalitarian state has to be stopped.  Even though I don't fly on commercial planes, I think that people being searched electronically and having to present an ID is unconscionable.   If you can't go where you want to go when you want to go and how you want to go, you're not free.  Driving an automotive vehicle is different.  These are lethal machines.  It's appropriate that drivers be licensed to certify that they are qualified to operate a lethal machine.  It's not a matter of privelege.  It's a matter of competence.  Which is why I  am all in favor of revoking the licenses of incompetents.  Being just a little superstitious, I hesitate to mention it, but in almost 50 years of driving all over the U.S., including to California and back and up and down the eastern seaboard on an annual basis, i have never been in a collision or so-called "accident." Never had to make an insurance claim, except when we discovered that all four tires on our car had been punctured with an ice pick.

I downloaded the DLC Document that Madfloridian referred to.  Burt and I will read it and let you know our take on the social security part of it.  may be a couple of threads from now as we are also headed out to deliver election info to my precinct.

Just by chance I popped into a local Wal Mart Super Center....................................

This country is finished...................to bad......had great potential but alas.................

"Stephen Colbert claims to represent a new kind of politics, but today we see he's participating in the slash and burn politics that has no place in American discourse.

Colbert is a comedian pretending to be a Republican. 

Edwards is a Republican pretending to be a Democrat. 

It is kind of unfortunate when the mannerisms of a man's speech rather than the content or quality of his thoughts matter, and if that was the deciding point, Bush would have been removed years ago. maybe that is why we yearn for better (not to equate Dodd and W)

. The bottom line will be one of the determinates.

~~~~~~~~

why none have been built for a long time and that is without bringing in disposal costs

Edwards is a Republican pretending to be a Democrat. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edwards might be the only one to actually roll back the Bush tax cuts, making him the only Democrat in the race.