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Enemy of the Good

Written by: Tom Bearse on Jul 6, 2008 10:51 PM EDT

I suppose what we have are lines, the lines we will walk up to but refuse to cross. In the often unseemly world of politics, they shift in order to make the necessary trade-offs between personal integrity and the practical reality of Machiavellian strategies for success, or they harden and such trade-offs are rejected in favor of principled defeat.

They’re everywhere, expressed in the sentiments of bloggers here and at other sites. They stretch from the cold and lonely vigil over the cyclic presidential campaigns of Dennis Kucinich, to the euphoric band wagon jumping for the political Everyman, Barack Obama. It’s a riddle that needed solving when confronted in 2000, for example, with the decision of whether to throw away a vote on a third party candidate or, worse, take a vote from Al Gore, for the specific purpose of expressing your exasperation with two party politics, and give it to Ralph Nader. From this misguided calculus was formed the presidency of George Bush. It’s hard to appreciate the political idealism implicit in such a voting decision with results so horrible.

I listen to complaints about Obama, whose conciliatory and unorthodox resort to bipartisanship is often regarded as a simple kind of centrist politics, as if putting together a coalition of loyal Democratic voters, third party strays, independent thinkers, and disenchanted Republican moderates automatically rendered him and his left-of-center voting record a living statistical average of the voting tendencies of this diverse group.

The fatuous quality of this thinking is graphically revealed by a cursory review of the mainstream media, derided by hyperbolic harpies on the right as liberal mouthpieces, prating on about what a liberal firebrand Obama is compared with the moderate centrist, John McCain, a politician who rubs elbows with the press and forges legislation with such noteworthy liberal lawmakers as Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold. It’s as if the liberal policies of these senators could rub off on and contaminate the Republican standard bearer, wholly without regard for his own voting record, harsh foreign policy rhetoric, and repeated repudiations of formerly held views regarding tax cuts, off-shore drilling, and the torture of enemy combatants.

Do the same complaints about conciliation get directed at Kennedy and Feingold for the unpalatable bills they cosponsor with a person like McCain, whom these same critics vilify as a phony, two-faced Republican hack? No. Still, lines must be drawn, and while Obama is increasingly positioning himself in a way that will attract curious, suspicious, and uninformed voters, who sometimes venture with caution across the center of the political spectrum, the voices of ideologically pure liberals, the ones who pine for Kucinich’s hopeless but existentially satisfying crusades, are being raised. I’ve heard them before.

Similar criticisms were leveled at presidential candidate Howard Dean over his support for gun rights regulation by the states; his opposition to gay marriage; his willingness to grant tax breaks to large insurers and relax environmental protection standards for corporate farming operations in Vermont; his failure to support single-payer healthcare coverage; his support of NAFTA; his support for Israel; his overtures toward religious believers; even, incredibly, his support for war against Iraq in the form of the Biden-Lugar Amendment to the Iraq authorization bill in Congress. To his followers, Dean was taking on the DLC proponents in his party. To his detractors, he was the DLC. Of course, like Obama, Dean was called an out-of-the mainstream liberal by the conventional media, just like he was called a pandering, establishment Democrat by his left-leaning critics.

All of which I find fascinating because now, when we are on the verge of seeing Dean’s political progeny, Barack Obama, pick up the fallen standard of the 2004 Dean candidacy and use it to organize the most successful and compelling grassroots campaign in the history of American politics, the lines are becoming apparent. Opposing telecom immunity is not regarded as the principled stand that leading a filibuster and voting against the FISA compromise in the Senate is. Leaving Iraq is not sufficient opposition to the U.S. occupation as setting and keeping a timetable without regard to the security situation in that country, once the preset time for leaving comes to pass, would be.

Would Howard Dean have done the same thing as a nominee? Some people who drew the line in 2004 apparently thought so, following the same line of attack against him that Kucinich used. Dean didn’t support single-payer healthcare coverage and Kucinich did. Kucinich called out Dean for supporting an increase in the social security retirement age. Dean thought it necessary to stay in Iraq once the President committed troops there, while Kucinich demanded that the troops be withdrawn and replaced by U.N. peacekeepers.

I wonder how it is that for some ardent Dean supporters then, no lines between Kucinich and Dean were drawn on the basis of the candidates’ respective views, in a way that they are drawn regarding Obama’s views now. It’s possible to hypothesize that perhaps ideological purity is one thing and ideological consistency another.

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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 9:44 AM EDT

Tom -

Good post.

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By Karen on Jul 7, 2008 1:45 PM EDT

Yes, excellent Post, Tom!

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- It is a good post.

By publius on Jul 7, 2008 8:37 PM EDT

 

Why not leave the loss on the Candidate and the electorate.
Nader did not elect George Bush.

676t107993

- Work Cut Out.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 8, 2008 8:08 AM EDT

Why not then convince me that a bunch of discontented Bush defectors voted for Nader?

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- I'll shirk it

By publius on Jul 8, 2008 10:09 PM EDT

Nader made points and asked questions that deserved responses and answers from the powers that be.

"Most Americans don't realize how badly they're being harmed by the
unchecked commercialization of what belongs to the commonwealth. If
enough people knew what questions to ask, we have both the ways and
means to achieve better schools, a healthier environment, a more general
distribution of decent health care."

". . . When people tell me that I'm wrecking the Democratic Party, I ask
them what's left to wreck. The Democratic Party isn't going to heal itself.
If it went and stood in a cold shower for the next four years, maybe it
would think of something to do and say that isn't already being done and
said by the Republican Party
."

Has the water been cold enough after 8 years?  Will the temp need to be lowered for another 4 years or does the lukewarm result of the 2006 mid terms keep the Party comfy?

"The change invariably begins with people whom the defenders of the status quo denounce as agitators, communists, hippies, weirdos. And then, ten or twenty years later, after the changes have taken place, the chamber of commerce discovers that everybody's profits have improved. The captains of industry never seem to understand that a free democracy is the precondition for a free market. . ."

Tell It Man, Tell It! YOU SHOULD HAVE TOOK IT TO THEM IN THE DEBATES!

I've never heard Gore blame Nader.  So if you're looking for scapegoats
look first at the Candidate's campaign, then cast an eye on the multitude that voted for W.  Working down the list there is the MSMedia who howled loudly at a couple of Gore embellishments while giving the "if he's talking, he's lying" Guvner Bush the who cares free ride.  How about the Dem Elections officer in FL who couldn't put Gore's name in the right place on a butterfly ballot but kept her job afterwards.  There was also the criminal tampering of Jeb and Katherine's ethnic voter list cleansing campaign that they got away with.

But don't cuss Nader.  He did his civic duty.  

 

Default_user

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By roger rankin on Jul 7, 2008 1:08 PM EDT

4114

Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- Barack Obama has been clear and steadfast in his pledge to start bringing troops out.

By Phil Specht on Jul 7, 2008 3:07 PM EDT

and he has often repeated "We will be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in."

 

"We will start immediately to withdraw one to two brigades a month" oft repeated.

His views on the war are inline with 2/3 's of the American people and have not changed.

 

 

511t233735

- Responses

By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 1:18 PM EDT

Opposing telecom immunity is not regarded as the principled stand that leading a filibuster and voting against the FISA compromise in the Senate is.

 

It's not a "compromise". It legitimizes Bush's lawbreaking, that of the telecoms and the complicity of the Democratic Leadership. Not only that, it is a betrayal of a firm commitment to "Filibuster any legislation containing telecom immunity" given at various times over the past year.

 

Leaving Iraq is not sufficient opposition to the U.S. occupation as setting and keeping a timetable without regard to the security situation in that country, once the preset time for leaving comes to pass, would be.

16 months should be regarded as an upper limit for removing all US Forces from Iraq. The instability in that country is wholly attributable to the occupation. We've heard both the patronizing colonial gibberish about the Iraqis perhaps being not ready for our departure-a 230 year old country questioning the abilityof a 5,000 year old civilization to settle it's problems without our interference. Obama has also injected the politics of fear--saying we shouldn't leave if Al Qaeda is resurgent. That's taken straight from the Biush-Cheney playbook. Al Qaeda wasn't there before we invaded, and they'll be gone shortly after we leave--the Iraqis will see to that.

Would Howard Dean have done the same thing as a nominee?

 

That question is moot. He's not running for anything, and idle speculation about what he may or may not have done serves no useful purpose.

 

 

676t107993

- Quit avoiding the point.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 1:25 PM EDT

Dismissing something as moot is a quaint dodge, when the truth is Dean's brand of moderate liberalism, branded as some kind of unrelieved leftist cant by the mainstream press, was more than acceptable to liberal advocates who populate this community.  Obama's moderate liberalism, branded as some kind of unrelieved leftist cant by the same media, is actually derided as appeasement politics by his antagonists here.  It's too convenient.  Sorry you can't make up your mind about which election cycle you should or should not be supporting Kucinich's bid for the presidency in, but you obviously can't.  I just wonder what's the reason.

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- No it's not a dodge

By rich^kolker on Jul 7, 2008 1:55 PM EDT

What you've done is put up a strawman of WWDD, which is unknowable and useless, since it is not the issue.  The issue is what Obama IS doing, and whether it constitutes an acceptable political move, or an unacceptable flip-flop on issues of importance to this community.

Perfect may be the opposite of good, but bad is also the opposite of good.

676t107993

- Like your response.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 1:59 PM EDT

A complete dodge.  What's the reason that Dean's brand of moderate liberalism was acceptable to you, when Kucinich was the ideologically suited option, and Obama's brand of moderate liberalism is somehow inadequate?  The media has crammed down our throat identical messages that both Dean and Obama brought an extreme sort of liberal sensibility to the political arena.

Are you seriously telling me that you don't recall the plaintive bleatings by liberal hand-wringers about what a phony opponent to the war Dean was, giving lip service to his opposition in March 2003 after conceding his support for the proposed Biden-Lugar amendment in 2002?  Funny.  Gephardt certainly remembered during the debates.

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 2:01 PM EDT

Tom, your obsession with and repeated resurrection of the failed  Dean Campaign is simply not relevant in discussing the current campaign.

I don't keep harking back to the failed Kucinich campaign; you do.

I intend to vote for Obama, but 20,000 people have sent e-mails in opposition to his FISA position to MyBO. That's hard to ignore, or spin.

I simply do not accept the mantra that we have to express unqualified support and blind devotion to a candidate, no matter what dumb things he says or does.

 

From Ray McGovern's thoughtful letter on FISA:

 

You have made a big mistake, Senator, in indicating you intend to vote for it. There is still time to change your mind. That's what big people do.

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- Your cooperation is appreciated.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 2:00 PM EDT

Please don't lecture me on obsessions.

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- DOH

By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
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- John said

By Karen on Jul 7, 2008 2:00 PM EDT

"Tom, your obsession with and repeated resurrection of the failed  Dean Campaign is simply not relevant in discussing the current campaign."

But it IS relevant, John!

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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 2:13 PM EDT

so is spelling relevant ("doh" ?  is that supposed to mean "duh" ?)

Democracy_tinythumb

- DOH=OUGHT OH! :o)

By Karen on Jul 7, 2008 2:50 PM EDT
357t234709

- Howard is at the center ...

By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 1:36 PM EDT

... of it all.

337t2482

- Well, I think...

By Subway Serenade on Jul 7, 2008 1:36 PM EDT

the heat Obama is taking on telcom Immunity is a good thing. His response was lame, if for no other reason than the telcom victims deserve their day in court, and that right shouldn't be legislated away. Look what's happening to the innocent people who were tortured who can't sue the government or, it seems. the security contractors who may have been involved in it.

It's cost him in some recent polls, but it's early and Obama can probably shake it off. If he wanted to solidify the base, he'd be very smart to put Howard Dean on the ticket.

That would shut the base up in a hurry.

676t107993

- To what lame response are you referring?

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 1:53 PM EDT

That he opposed telecom immunity?

511t233735

- Chronolgy of Obama Statements on FISA, prior to June 20, 2008

By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT

 

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/obama_fisa.php

Obama comes out against a proposed FISA bill granting retroactive immunity, October 18, 2007:

Obama: "It is time to restore oversight and accountability in the FISA program, and this proposal -- with an unprecedented grant of retroactive immunity -- is not the place to start."

Bill Burton issues a statement, October 24, 2007, reaffirming Obama's position and pledging to support Chris Dodd's filibuster:

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

Campaign statement, December 17, 2007, further elaborating on this point in regards to a particular upcoming Senate vote on Dodd's filibuster:

"Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies and has cosponsored Senator Dodd's efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It's not clear whether he can return for the vote, but under the Senate rules, the side trying to end a filibuster must produce 60 votes to cut off debate. Whether he is present for the vote for not, Senator Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster."

Obama issues another statement on the FISA bill, January 28, 2008, saying that the dichotomy between civil liberties and security is a false choice:

I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.

Ever since 9/11, this Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand.

The FISA court works. The separation of power works. We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight, and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend.

No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people -- not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.

That is why I am co-sponsoring Senator Dodd's amendment to remove the immunity provision. Secrecy must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens - and set an example to the world - that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient.

676t107993

- Is it lost on anyone here at all . . .

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT

That you've chronicled Obama's consistent opposition to telecom immunity?

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 2:14 PM EDT

And his consistent commitment to filibustering any bill that contained retroactive immunity--not just the immunity provision.

"I will work to remove..." is a big step away from that committment

676t107993

- Are you trying to tell us

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 2:17 PM EDT

That he hasn't supported a filibuster of such a bill?  Are you aware that he won't support a filibuster of such a bill?  Are you aware if there will be a fillibuster of such a bill? 

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 3:38 PM EDT

Read the last 2 statements

676t107993

- All right.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
676t107993

- Now that I've read them

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:49 PM EDT

Are you aware that he won't support a filibuster of such a bill?  Are you aware if there will be a fillibuster of such a bill? 

357t234709

- Howard's 50-state strategy ...

By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 1:37 PM EDT

... is Mile High:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/07/obamas-big-night-moves-invesco/?partner=yahoo_headlines

A view of Invesco Field during set-up before an event.

A view of Invesco Field during set-up before an event.

Invesco Field at Mile High as seen from the air.

Rocky Mountain News

Invesco Field at Mile High as seen from the air.

 

Obama's big night moves to Invesco

By Bill Scanlon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Originally published 07:34 a.m., July 7, 2008

Barack Obama will give his acceptance speech at Invesco Field at Mile High, where there is room for more than 76,000 people, Democrats announced this morning.

A special block of "community" tickets will be reserved for Colorado residents, with details on how to get them coming in the next couple of weeks.

It's a chance for grass-roots supporters to be there when history is made, and a break from the mold of traditional political conventions, said Gov. Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

"The Democratic Party is nominating a true change candidate this August, and it is only fitting that we make some big changes in how we put on the convention," Dean said in a press release.

"Senator Obama's candidacy has generated an enormous amount of excitement and interest, not only in the Democratic Party but also in the 2008 Convention. By bringing the last night of the Convention out to the people, we will be able to showcase Barack Obama's positive, people-centered vision for our country in a big way."

Obama's campaign has inspired people to get involved in the political process for the first time, said convention co-chairwoman Kathleen Sebelius, the governor of Kansas.

The switch to Invesco "will allow thousands of first-time participants a chance to take part."

Invesco will be the site of the 2008 Democratic convention's final day: Aug. 28.

...
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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 1:40 PM EDT

in 1960, JFK did a similar thing

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- Obama's big night moves to Invesco

By Karen on Jul 7, 2008 1:52 PM EDT

AWESOME!

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- Can they drop the venue name for a night.

By publius on Jul 7, 2008 8:41 PM EDT

 

Wage earners and unemployed Americans ought to be spared the shameless promotion that will acrue to INVESCO.

Symbolism and "Meet The New Boss" ring.

Default_user

- You're kidding, right?

By on Jul 8, 2008 12:35 AM EDT
Scan_tinythumb

- Actually, I'm not.

By publius on Jul 8, 2008 9:30 PM EDT

 

Okay, I did have to check up on Invesco and look for any "Friend of the Good" characteristics.  From its Website:

"Invesco Ltd.

As one of the largest independent global investment managers, Invesco Ltd. is dedicated to helping people worldwide build their financial security.

Invesco strives to deliver outstanding products and services through a comprehensive array of enduring investment solutions for our retail, institutional and private wealth management clients around the world.

Invesco

Invesco has worked hard to earn the trust of investors around the world. With fully integrated investment capabilities that span traditional and alternative asset classes, Invesco is one of the world's leading names in investment management for institutions and individuals worldwide"

Looks like standard Wall Street fare to me.

Does the party even pretend to stand for wage earners anymore?
If so how does the coronation of Barack Obama brought to you by INVESCO sound to them - in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania for instance.

Pittsburgh, PA - Steeltown USA population circa 1972 = 1 million
Pittsburgh, PA - poster child of Globalism population circa 2008 = 300,000

The USA as the "Shining City on the Hill" rots into the Dying City of empire.

Brought to you by Gucci clad suits playing with the big bucks between
Wall Street, Ridyah, Hong Kong, Bombay, Shanghai, Singapore, etc.
with the blessings of the BiPartisan coalition that taxes wages at a higher rate than capital gains.

. . .

Tactically, in the electoral fight for Colorado, the big house move makes sense.  Symbolicly, it's going to be difficult making the occasion an honor
for The People when The Company banner is so conspicuous! 

 

 


 

 

Democracy_tinythumb

- Howard Dean's candidacy

By Karen on Jul 7, 2008 1:50 PM EDT

from NYT...

Much of the technology in the Obama toolbox was pioneered by Howard Dean’s 2004 campaign. “We were like the Wright brothers,” said Joe Trippi, the Web mastermind of the Dean campaign. The Obama team, he added, “skipped Boeing, Mercury, Gemini — they’re Apollo 11, only four years later.”

Mr. Rospars and other former Dean aides formed a consulting firm, Blue State Digital, to refine their techniques. The Obama campaign purchased the backbone of MyBo from Blue State and has set out to improve it. “It’s still TheFacebook,” Mr. Hughes said, comparing Mr. Obama’s current site to the earliest and narrowest version of Facebook. “It’s still very, very rough around the edges.”

 

 

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 2:10 PM EDT

Trippi--now there was a freakin genius!

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By publius on Jul 8, 2008 10:43 PM EDT

The dollars per delegate returns in his campaigns aren't very efficient.

357t234709

- IMO the far-left and far-right are lost in Yonkers

By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT
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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
both the far-left and the far-right are out of touch with America ...  |  Report to Admin
... and that's why "it's neither red state nor blue state" Obama will win this November:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obama-must-be-doing-somet_b_110673.html

Frank Schaeffer

Obama Must Be Doing Something Right: He's Got The Fundamentalists of the Left and Right Upset

Posted July 3, 2008 | 02:35 PM (EST)

Obama is calling for change, service and reconciliation by we individualistic Americans. That is bad news for culture war, racial war, religious war, secular war, progressive war, conservative war warriors. The fact that the ideological fundamentalists of both the left and the right, of both secular America and religious America, are attacking Obama, and/or correcting him and admonishing him is a good sign that Obama is of indeed the right man for the job of President. He is self-evidently not about helping one side or the other in a divided America "win." He is about America winning.

People with vested interest in our ideological divisions, people like me -- authors who make our living exacerbating the differences between our various American tribes -- have found a lot of fault of with Senator Obama lately. Maybe we expected him to somehow become president without needing to be elected. Good God! He's playing politics! The sky is falling!

In order to change anything Obama must actually become President first, not run for pure-of-heart progressive-in-chief. Yes, that means he will use his money advantage and forget public funding. Yes, that means he'll reach out to evangelicals.

Obama happens to have his feet planted solidly on planet earth.

...
M183687_tinythumb

- There's nothing in the middle of the road...

By rich^kolker on Jul 7, 2008 2:52 PM EDT

...except yellow stripes and dead armadillos.

A leader sets out a clear direction and asks others to follow.  Watching where everyone already is (or you think they are, or someone tells you they are) and then running to get in front of the crowd is not leadership.

So, arguments that Obama has to be in "the center" to get elected don't convince me.

I happen to think he always was a centrist, "go along" Democrat, but that doesn't mean I don't get to try to convince him to be otherwise.

676t107993

- What you think without the evidence can't be our concern.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:03 PM EDT

However, the suggestion that Obama doesn't have to show some movement towards the center to get elected, is literally stupefying.

Would Kucinich?  Skip him, would Dean?  Now consider that Obama is the first black nominee for president of any major party, considered to be unpatriotic by fully 25% of poll respondents, and is still considered a Muslim by a substantial minority of American voters who concurrently disapprove of his membership in Rev. Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ for 20 years. 

This kind of political naivite, from a veteran Democratic activist no less, is shocking.

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 3:37 PM EDT

Gore moved to the right--he lost

Kerry moved to the right--he lost

Hillary moved to the right--she lost

 

I think I see a trend

676t107993

- Gore?

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:45 PM EDT

You mean the "The People, not the Powerful" campaign? 

I further don't understand the suggestion that Kerry moved to the right.  He certainly assumed the guise of a strong national security candidate to become the nominee but by the time of the general election, recanted his own vote for the invasion authorization, against the strong advice of his running mate, John Edwards, and basically went after Bush's policies with a flamethrower.

 

 

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- The People Not the Powerful

By publius on Jul 7, 2008 10:58 PM EDT

Yes, he did put that front and center.
I think Gore ought not have distanced himself from Clinton (Bill that is) on such a personal and national campaign scale.

It ought to have been a campaign for a third Clinton term with
a "people not the powerful" policy emphasis.

Default_user

- We all know Gore won :)

By on Jul 8, 2008 12:38 AM EDT
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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 2:10 PM EDT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trey-ellis/what-if-obama-never-left_b_110318.html

Trey Ellis

What If Obama Never Left the Center?

Posted July 1, 2008 | 06:09 PM (EST)

What if Obama isn't tacking to the center just for the general election as all us good progressives would like to think, but instead he genuinely believes his positions? What if he meant it all along when he said he didn't see red states or blue states but the United States? What if he wasn't kidding when he blamed both the old guard Republicans and the old school Dems for the gridlock that has paralyzed the past decade of so? What if he really is very Christian and not just pretending, as you lefty atheists not-so-secretly wish? I can't tell you how many times I've heard friends say, "He's just like us. He can't really believe that mumbo-jumbo." (For the record I'm more of a Zen Buddhist but I think it takes a nuanced mind for a man of intellect to also be a man of faith.)

I was a little late to jump on the Obama bandwagon for many of these very reasons. I didn't find his positions, especially on universal health care, as progressive as I would have wished. Both he and Hillary seemed very much of the DLC centrist mold despite calling themselves progressives.

Paul Krugman has been writing about this for months but you Obama fans to the left of him just didn't want to listen. The same thing happened with Howard Dean. He was an openly centrist, pro-business governor, but because he was anti-war, progressives ignored his record and just assumed he was to the left of Ralph Nader.

...

Obama's strength isn't his slavish adherence to party line but his ability, issue by issue, to decide the right medicine at the right moment.

If that makes you call him a centrist then so be it. Get over it already. He's nobody's man but his own.

Howard_kevin_tinythumb

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By Kevin Shaw on Jul 7, 2008 2:06 PM EDT

I tell my friends, acquaintances, and anyone else who will listen, that Obama is running for President of the United States, not president of DFA. We can expect that his rhetoric will move to the center so as not to frighten the villagers. Only once we have their attention and trust can we hope to move the center towards us which, I think, is the ultimate strategy.

Howard_kevin_tinythumb

- Speaking of dichotomy

By Kevin Shaw on Jul 7, 2008 2:11 PM EDT

You could be, as I am, represented in the Senate by Arlen Specter who voted for the MCA and justified his vote by saying that the courts would eventually restore habeas corpus. My head is still spinning.

Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- DFA's Position is clear, Tom's is not.

By Phil Specht on Jul 7, 2008 2:38 PM EDT

 

Join Senator Feingold and stand up to President Bush: Sign our Senate Petition to Stop Telecom Immunity
Phil -

Senator Feingold needs our help to stop the FISA "compromise" bill. Russ sent me this message to pass on to you. Please read it and then sign our Senate Petition to Stop Telecom Immunity. We will deliver the petitions to every Senator on Tuesday morning, right before the expected vote.

Let's make sure they get our message loud and clear.
CLICK HERE TO SIGN THE PETITION NOW

Senator Feingold's message directly to you:

Dear Friend,

In recent days, people across the country have voiced the opinion that the so-called "compromise" FISA bill working its way through the Senate must be stopped.

As you already know, I am working hard to strip retroactive immunity for the telecommunications companies that allegedly cooperated with the President's illegal warrantless wiretapping program from the bill.

But that is not the only problem. This FISA legislation gives enormous powers to the government: including the ability to read emails and text messages and listen to phone conversations of anyone communicating with their family members, friends, associates, reporters, ANYBODY who may be overseas -- all with zero court review.  Nobody should be supporting this legislation.

We can defend our country from terrorists while at the same time protecting the rights and freedoms outlined in the Constitution.  It's time for our elected officials to stand up for the values on which our country was founded.

We should celebrate our Constitution this Fourth of July -- and do everything we can to prevent it from being torn up when the Senate returns to Washington next week.

Progressives everywhere have already had a tremendous impact -- with phone calls, emails, and letters pouring into offices by the hundreds (in some cases thousands), but the pressure on my colleagues to give in to this so-called "compromise" and President Bush is strong.

I'm going to continue to do everything I can to stand up for the rights and freedoms we all share.  Thanks again for doing your part.

Sincerely,

Russ Feingold
Honorary Chair
Progressive Patriots Fund

Russ also shot a video last Friday night to thank you and all progressives fighting against this bill. You can watch it while signing our Senate Petition to Stop Telecom Immunity.

CLICK HERE TO STAND UP FOR THE CONSTITUTION AND STOP TELECOM IMMUNITY

Working together, we will stop this bill.

- Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for America
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By * rdorgan on Jul 7, 2008 2:45 PM EDT

reposted repeatedly to ad nauseum

Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- as far as I know the Senate hasn't voted yet

By Phil Specht on Jul 7, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
676t107993

- I think you're confused.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 2:56 PM EDT

To make this statement, you need to find and quote any statement by me, made at anytime, here or somewhere else, to you or to anyone else, in support of the FISA Amendments Act.  Maybe you think you can do that.

Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- did you sign the petition?

By Phil Specht on Jul 7, 2008 3:08 PM EDT
676t107993

- No.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:06 PM EDT

Do you think I should?

676t107993

- I would like the [person] doing the negative rating . . .

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 2:30 PM EDT

to come out from behind the curtain and explain the basis for it, rather than show their petulance from the shadows.  Disapproval of the content of a post can be more persuasively demonstrated by means of a cogent counterargument than by affixing your little negative sign to it.  Although I can understand the reason for the anonymity, it's not very forthright of you, and it's certainly a poor substitute for reasoned debate.

676t107993

- La-di-da, la-di-da.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:05 PM EDT

No responses.  Imagine that.

M183687_tinythumb

- This isn't on topic

By rich^kolker on Jul 7, 2008 3:08 PM EDT

Why hasn't it been moved to the WC?

 

:-)

676t107993

- Good point.

By Tom Bearse on Jul 7, 2008 3:10 PM EDT

Although it refers to posts that were on topic, so maybe it receives an immunity grant by association.

511t233735

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By Huron John on Jul 7, 2008 3:41 PM EDT