First are the truthtellers, Deans (who are) and progressive Democrats and Indies!

Great post, George.

I wish the Dems would just stand up and be proud of being liberal. There are so few bold ones out there.

Edwards has publicly repudiated his vote on Iraq, and in so many ways, is not GOP-Lite.

 I'm not an unabashed fan of Edwards, but prefer him to Hillary, Barack, Vilsack, Kerry, Biden, the list goes on.

 I'm a real fan of Denny Kucinich, and I hope he can light a fire that takes him all the way; I feel, however, that the media, DLC, and chickenhawks will undermine him.

 I hope not!

3. Edwards did repudiate his vote but only after the American public swing that way. I guess I just can't forget his cheerleading about this war and the fact that he was a part of writing the Patriot Act. That isn't bold leadership.

swing s/b swung.

10 PM ET - Saddam will be executed.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/2006122...

A lot of Bloodthirsty folk will celebrate Saddam's death................

3. Edwards did repudiate his vote but only after the American public swing that way. I guess I just can't forget his cheerleading about this war and the fact that he was a part of writing the Patriot Act. That isn't bold leadership.

Åt least Edwards LISTENS to the will of the people and repudiating his vote proves that. Bush listens to none of us, none.

Hillary has not yet repudiated, has she?  Has Kerry, altho he's history?  Biden hasn't. The others haven't.  That's one reason I'm looking at Edwards.  Also, I think he's a fast learner and I like that he has no long term connection to DC and the corruption there.  If anything, he's too naive, and could be bulldozed if elected.

Actually I rather like

Gore/Edwards

Gore/Boxer

Gore/Pelosi 

Well, Edwards' views don't interest me all that much.  Oddly, I find myself in agreement with GHWB's perspective on the "vision thing."  What I want to know is what has Edwards done?  What has he done except be supportive of his cancerous wife?  What has he done except go around the country and make speeches?  What has he done besides hiring neophyte operatives to organize rallies?

There was one in New Hampshire today.  I did not attend.  

I hope someone who did provides a first-hand report. 

Executing Saddam is a very grave mistake, but hey, who listens to people who can critically think as well as who understand that when you hurt your brother/sister, you hurt yourself.

Our poor poor troops and Iraqi citizens. I feel so helpless to stop what's about to happen, knowing that another Pandora box will be opened all over the ME.

worst. putz. ever. ever. ever.  none. worse. 

To do anything, Edwards has to be given a chance.  Let's see how this comes down.

Linda*in*SFNM

------------------

thanks for the link - I found a great article by one of my favorite author , Chris Hedges (not to be confused with Chris Hodges)

By Chris Hedges

Editor’s Note: The former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and author of the bestseller “War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning” takes a hard look at the political capital of suffering.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/200601023_chris_hedges_coveting_the_holocaust/

THANKS  ALSO,   seashell, - it is nice to know my word-smithing is appreciated.

I guess I can repeat my sticker, since it's NOW on topic!  LOL

Well, do we have a detailed explanation of why he voted for what he's now repudiated and the reasons for his re-assessment?  If it's still because the war was mismanaged, I won't be impressed.

Cindy's question is still valid: "What national interest?"  

The execution of  Saddam is just another huge blunder by the Bush administration. How many on all sides will lose their lives over this event?

Top Ten Iraq Myths for 2006

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/46006/

1. Myth number one is that the United States "can still win" in Iraq. Of course, the truth of this statement, frequently still made by William Kristol and other Neoconservatives, depends on what "winning" means. But if it means the establishment of a stable, pro-American, anti-Iranian government with an effective and even-handed army and police force in the near or even medium term, then the assertion is frankly ridiculous.

The United States cannot "win" in the sense defined above. It cannot. And the blindly arrogant assumption that it can win is calculated to get more tens of thousands of Iraqis killed and more thousands of American soldiers and Marines badly wounded or killed. Moreover, since Iraq is coming apart at the seams under the impact of our presence there, there is a real danger that we will radically destabilize it and the whole oil-producing Gulf if we try to stay longer.

2. "US military sweeps of neighborhoods can drive the guerrillas out." The US put an extra 15,000 men into Baghdad this past summer, aiming to crush the guerrillas and stop the violence in the capital, and the number of attacks actually increased.

3. The United States is best off throwing all its support behind the Iraqi Shiites

The Sunni Arabs have demonstrated conclusively that they can act effectively as spoilers in the new Iraq. If they aren't happy, no one is going to be. The US must negotiate with the guerrilla leaders and find a win/win framework for them to come in from the cold and work alongside the Kurds and the religious Shiites. About this, US Ambassador in Baghdad Zalmay Khalilzad has been absolutely right.

4. "Iraq is not in a civil war," as Jurassic conservative Fox commentator Bill O'Reilly insists. There is a well-established social science definition of civil war put forward by Professor J. David Singer and his colleagues: "Sustained military combat, primarily internal, resulting in at least 1,000 battle-deaths per year, pitting central government forces against an insurgent force capable of effective resistance, determined by the latter's ability to inflict upon the government forces at least 5 percent of the fatalities that the insurgents sustain."

5. "The second Lancet study showing 600,000 excess deaths from political and criminal violence since the US invasion is somehow flawed." Les Roberts replies here to many of the objections that were raised. See also the transcript of the Kucinich-Paul Congressional hearings on the subject.

6. "Most deaths in Iraq are from bombings." The Lancet study found that the majority of violent deaths are from being shot.

7. "Baghdad and environs are especially violent but the death rate is lower in the rest of the country." The Lancet survey found that levels of violence in the rest of the country are similar to that in Baghdad.

8. "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror." From the beginning of history until 2003 there had never been a suicide bombing in Iraq. There was no al-Qaeda in Baath-ruled Iraq. When Baath intelligence heard that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi might have entered Iraq, they grew alarmed at such an "al-Qaeda" presence and put out an APB on him!

9. "The Sunni Arab guerrillas in places like Ramadi will follow the US home to the American mainland and commit terrorism if we leave Iraq." This assertion is just a variation on the invalid domino theory.

10. "Setting a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq is a bad idea." Bush and others in his administration have argued that setting such a timetable would give a significant military advantage to the guerrillas fighting US forces and opposed to the new government. That assertion makes sense only if there were a prospect that the US could militarily crush the Sunni Arabs. There is no such prospect.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bring 'em on!

Edwards didn't just vote for the war.  He helped to sell the idea.

Phil, I actually agree with you.  Just didn't like the other half of the arguement: if this, then that.  The that is *always* on our own shoulders.

Norman Finkelstein, who for his writings has been virtually blacklisted, noted in “The Holocaust Industry” that the Jewish Holocaust has allowed Israel to cast itself and “the most successful ethnic group in the United States” as eternal victims.  Finkelstein, the son of Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust, goes on to argue that this status has enabled Israel, which has “a horrendous human rights record,” to play the victim as it oppresses Palestinians or destroys Lebanon.

 http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601023_chris_hedges_coveting_the_holocaust/

HEAVY SHIT

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=T2T4D

Nice post George.

CNN has all right leaning pundits on giving kudos to Lieberman's Op Ed. Sheesh.

And another question to add to Georges.

If you claim to be against this War and campaigned on that ground, why would you not be trying to end it or even support a Bill 1

 1/2 years later to Bring our troops home and redeploy them by certain timelines? 

Oops!

Table now with 15 inches on it.

24. Linda

Your post got cut off on my browser.

FOX is really getting off on the hanging.  Time to switch channels.  Hopefully, Keith will have a real program tonight instead of a retrospect.

Looking at all that snow, I'm happy to be sitting here eating homemade French Onion soup with toasted slices of French bread covered with melted cheese floating on top.  Either it's very warming, or the glass of sherry that accompanies it is.

I wonder if European channels are carrying this minute by minute travesty/Hollywood style hanging.

LOL!

Jeopardy just had an answer "Charges of plagiarism in his speeches ended this Delaware Senator's presidential run."

Question: Who is Joe Biden, and is he looking for ways to cancel a broadcast license? 

31. Okay, I added the last part of the question.

jc, Well,, it's messed up on mine too.  

This blog software will just not let me post in "bold",  Only if I copy and paste does it work and even then I have problems.

Switching back to plain (the story of my life :( now ) 

Police charged with murdering duo on bridge after Katrina

London Times | December 29, 2006
Elsa McLaren

Seven police officers have been charged with murder and attempted murder for a shooting on a New Orleans bridge six days after Hurricane Katrina that killed two people and wounded four others.

The incident on the Danziger Bridge in the eastern part of the city on September 4, 2005, has come to represent the lawlessness that descended on the city in the aftermath of the storm.

At the time New Orleans sweltered under a blistering heat, corpses littered the streets and looters ransacked shops and businesses.

New Orleans police have described the incident as a shootout with snipers, but victims and their relatives claim it was a police ambush.

"We cannot allow our police officers to shoot and kill our citizens without justification like rabid dogs," Eddie Jordan, New Orleans District Attorney, said in a statement.

"The rules governing lethal force are not suspended in an emergency. Everyone, including police, must abide by the law of the land."

Ronald Madison, a 40-year-old mentally disabled man, and James Brissette, 19, were killed. The coroner said that Mr Madison was shot seven times in total, with five wounds in his back.

Mr Madison's brother Lance, who was with him at the time he was shot, said they were crossing the bridge when a group of teenagers ran up behind them and started firing shots. As they fled, seven men jumped out of a truck and began shooting.

The police department has said that an officer shot Mr Madison after he reached into the waistband of his trousers and turned towards the officer. However, his brother denies he was armed.

The officers indicted on first degree murder, which carries a possible death sentence, were, Kenneth Bowen, Robert Gisevius, Anthony Villavaso and Robert Faulcon. Three others, Robert Barrios, Michael Hunter and Ignatius Hills, were charged with attempted murder.

The New Orleans police department said the officers shot at snipers who had been firing at rescue workers near the bridge.

In a news conference, New Orleans police superintendent Warren Riley, called Mr Jordan's statement "highly unprofessional, highly prejudicial and highly undignified," and urged the community to withhold judgment until a jury decides the officer's guilt or innocence.

"The day these alleged events occurred was one of the darkest and saddest days in New Orleans Police Department and in America's history," he said. "I have my own opinions about these unfortunate circumstances, what happened, why and how, but for now that doesn't matter."

According to a police report several officers had responded to a radio call that two fellow officers had been hurt. When they arrived at the scene they saw seven people running, four of whom fired at police. The officers returned fire, the report said.

The shooting was widely reported as evidence of the crime and chaos that descended on the city after Katrina struck on August 29, 2005.

Some 80 per cent of the city was flooded and tens of thousands of people were stranded for days.

New Orleans police came under scrutiny for failing to stop the looting and lawlessness and many failed to show up for work.

re. Dershowitz' review of Jimmy Carter's book...just these comments and these will be my last on it so as not to drag it out too much--

The issue discussed was not Dershowitz' views on torture.  Anything is up for discussion here, of course, but contextually, we were discussing his review of the book....not torture.  I don't know his views on torture--would have to read more but even if he supports the technique it doesn't render his statements of fact re. Carter's book meaningless of false.

I provided citations for the quotes that Dershowitz used.  He didn't quote President Carter out of context or incorrectly.

He provided a number of instances where it appears Carter is simply wrong on the facts. 

Clearly, some here believe the fact that Dershowitz is Jewish makes his views suspect.  He is not a member of AIPAC and he said so. 

When we used terms like "Zionist", "Israel apologist" and nefariously hint at someone's "family history" .....how is that NOT anti-semitic?

I have always been a big Jimmy Carter fan and I'm surprised at the factual errors, surprised that he refuses to debate anyone about his book.  He chose the controversial topic. 

John Conyers  took issue with the title of the book...

Congressman John Conyers, a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus, [took] Carter to task for using the word "apartheid" in the title of his book, thereby belittling the horror of real racial discrimination and apartheid. As Conyers said, accusing Israel of apartheid "does not serve the cause of peace, and the use of it against the Jewish people in particular, who have been victims of the worst kind of discrimination, discrimination resulting in death, is offensive and wrong."

Conyers is not Jewish nor does he represent any Jewish organizations to the best of my knowledge. 

It is also argued here that Jewish people are not the only victims of racial discrimination.  I don't believe they feel they're the only victims.  Many of the white faces in the archival footage of marches with MLK are Jewish and I'll bet Conyers is well aware of that.

I'll say more after I've read Carter's book. 

jc, did you see ALL the snow pics? http://picasaweb.google.com/nperro/2006S...

of false. s/b or false.

THE MORALITY OF THINK TANK MILLIONAIRES

NewsWithViews.com | December 26, 2006
Nancy Levant

When customized moral codes and legislation are commissioned by councils of obscene wealth, average Joe and Jane can expect more than trouble. Think tanks have become the determiners of mankind’s future, for they are paid to implement morality and behavior laws according to the governing intentions of the world’s rich. This is a historically terrifying scenario and one that the world’s people forget over and over again. It is also a historical pattern based upon the psychology of human ignorance, which is why massive societal changes and “world wars” tend to occur in recurring patterns of about 50 years. Given a few generations, people forget the atrocities of former wars, which in turn give rise to the planning mechanisms for new and improved confiscations of the peoples’ wealth and land - or, in translation, new wars.

Depopulation of the masses and the land confiscation of global private property are the two primary goals of the elite one-world government. Private property provides wealth, liberty, and opportunity to the masses, which is abhorrent to those who believe themselves to be a higher and more intelligent species. In today’s world, this is more evident and obvious than ever before. The world’s richest people, who control international banking and transnational corporations, now fully fund all control mechanisms which affect the world’s people, land masses, watershed systems, and human health. If this doesn’t scare you, nothing ever will.

One of the most terrifying trends in the age of media technology is mankind’s belief that wealth equals freedom. This belief is particularly true for media-raised Westerners. We aspire to be rich. It is a primary cultural desire. It is why we attend universities, why we buy lotto tickets, why we watch elite tell-a-vision, and why we try to emulate the rich by buying homes, automobiles, and stuff that we cannot afford. It is also why we are addicted to shopping and spoiling children. We want to be rich. We want to look rich. We want everything without the pain of debt, which to us equates to “freedom.”

Saddam is about to be hung...

I have a cold beer sitting here.  I'll open it and drink in celebration once we get word that Saddam has made the long drop.

Seeya Saddam!

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye 

39.  Sounds like it's not the first cold beer of the evening.

36. Linda

Just beautiful.  Is that what you were expecting when you moved south?

Lawyer Ends Up Dead After Taking On Rove

Kurt Nimmo | December 28, 2006

It's fishy as hell.

Paul Sanford, a prominent Aptos, California, attorney, who accused Karl Rove of treason in the Plame outing case, took a leap from the Embassy Suites Hotel in Monterey Bay on Christmas Eve. Police describe it as “probable” suicide, even though it appears Sanford was not depressed.

“Friends and associates expressed disbelief at the news of Sanford's death and that it was ruled a suicide, saying Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. [Business associate and friend Shawn Mills] said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing,” reports the Monterey Herald. “Mills said he had spoken to Sanford's wife, Paula, and that she also was in shock. He said Sanford, a father of two, was a devoted family man.” Sanford “would never have intentionally put his family through that trauma. Something's not right, it doesn't make sense.”

On July 25, 2005, in the James S. Brady Briefing Room at the White House, Sanford asked then press secretary Scott McClellan about Karl Rove, accused at the time by Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame, of outing his wife as a CIA employee in retaliation for Wilson's op-ed published in the New York Times. Wilson criticized the citation of bogus yellowcake documents used as flimsy justification for invading Iraq and murdering more than 650,000 Iraqis.

McClellan was flummoxed by Sanford's question:

McClellan: Go ahead.

Sanford: Yes, thank you. There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove. The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?

McClellan: I think that in terms of decisions regarding the investigation, those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide.

Special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, decided not to charge Rove in the case, even though the former Donald Segretti dirty trickster understudy raised enough suspicion to warrant being called before a grand jury five times. Neocon Lewis “Scooter” Libby was charged with obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements to the FBI. A few weeks later, on July 13, 2006, Joseph and Valerie Wilson filed a civil suit against Cheney, Libby, Rove, and other unnamed senior White House officials, for their alleged roles in the public disclosure of her classified CIA employment.

In addition, Sanford was “a champion of the downtrodden, he represented homeless people in Santa Cruz, and fought for free speech,” according to Mills. As well, he hosted a radio talk show at KOMY, an Air America affiliate, although he was not associated with the bankrupt network. Sanford and Mills also hosted the “Paul and Shawn Show” on Saturdays at the Seaside, California, radio station KRXA.

Of course, there is no evidence Paul Sanford was pushed from “at least nine floors” above the large ventilation grate where he met his fate. As well, there is no evidence he committed suicide, or did he fit the profile of a suicide. However, there is plenty of evidence Sanford was a thorn in the side of the neocons, committing the ultimate sin of accusing one particularly nasty top drawer neocon, Karl Rove, of treason.

omg. and they get away with this brainwash!

Park Service Can't Give Official Age Of Grand Canyon For Fear Of Offending Creationists...

Due to pressure from Bush Administration officials, the National Park Service is not permitted to give an official age for the Grand Canyon. Additionally, a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood is for sale at the National Park's bookstore.

The sale of Grand Canyon: A Different View was scheduled for review over three years ago, but no such review has been schedule or even requested. The creationist book was the only item approved for sale in 2003 (22 other items were rejected).

39. You should go help your buddy out on the john blog.  They highlight the last ten comments, and he's three of them!  LOL

Saddam is about to be hung...

I have a cold beer sitting here.  I'll open it and drink in celebration once we get word that Saddam has made the long drop.

Seeya Saddam!

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye 

Have no idea what that last line there was, must have been included with the photo.

You needed to copy that, Daniel?

I'm still in my new fuzzy warm bathrobe that was a xmas gift.  It's drizzling and dreary outside; weather I actually love.  I'm so cozy I don't want to dress until dancing, later.

I provided citations for the quotes that Dershowitz used.  He didn't quote President Carter out of context or incorrectly

---------------

How about Dershowitz's patently false claim that Carter said Israel's actions are worse than the Rwanda genocide?

The question was about Rwanda today, not during the genocide, but it sounded like the classic "are you still beating your wife" question.

Carter distinctly said Israel is worse than Rwanda TODAY - not during the genocide, but Dershowitz is spreading just the opposite lie.  It is obvious Dershowitz is not concerned with accuracy but rather false character assasination.

Those who don't know Carter might actually believe it and that is Dershowitz's strategy.

----------------

Dershowitz presents  facts - that's a laugh - Dershowitz resents facts

Dershowitz consistently  uses the words "Carter "implies" or variations thereof and then writes Dershowitz's  opinion of what he thinks Carter is saying.

ummmm...."those who don't know Carter".  lol.

James Earl Carter......the 39th President of the United States??? 

Has written well over 20 books......won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002...has been involved in various national and international public policy, conflict resolution, human rights and charitable causes through the CARTER CENTER????

Habitat for Humanity???

Dershowitz' strategy was to point out the factual errors.  He succeeded.

finis. 

disturbing to see the news of Saddam on every front page..cautious every page i go to with the kids right here.. physically sickening...

marvb, exactly re: patriot act

jc GREAT sticker upthread and comment--didnt just vote for it but sold the idea.

jc, LOL, I did expect a more northern environment here, yes. Although, at this rate, I think we will be surpassing our 42 inches of snow per winter pretty quickly. We are at the base of the Rockies, in the high planes, so it's not what you get in the South West desert...thank goodness.

If you want to come check out City Different, USA, let me know. :)

Hey, Kimmy!  You still carrying an extra passenger?

Linda, Thanks.  Maybe someday.  I'm not in a traveling mode lately. 

jc i sure am..they keep saying about 4 more weeks but i just think theres no way in hell..seriously going to combust or have a major fall out any minute ha ...i promise there must be 4 babies in there. ;)

Declaration of Peace eNews:
December 29, 2006

The Declaration of Peace Supports UFPJ's Call for a March on Washington January 27, 2007:

From UFPJ: THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN, NOW CONGRESS MUST ACT. On Saturday, Jan. 27th, people from every corner of the country will march on Washington, DC. Our message will be clear, our voice will be strong: End the war in Iraq, Bring all the troops home now! We urge you to join us! On Mon., Jan. 29th, we will take our message directly to the new Congress during our lobby day. Visit the UFPJ Website for details: http://ent.groundspring.org/EmailNow/pub...

*****

Declaration of Peace Phase 2:

Between now and the fourth remembrance of the US invasion of Iraq on March 19, it is the goal of the Declaration of Peace to intensify pressure on the U.S. Congress to cut off war funding, to bring the troops home, and to support a comprehensive plan for peace. If our political leaders won't carry out their clear mandate for peace, then we will respond March 16-19 with dramatic and creative forms of peaceful resistance and nonviolent civil disobedience in towns and cities across the country. Join us in declaring peace in every U.S. Congressional district in the U.S!
Read more about phase 2:
http://ent.groundspring.org/EmailNow/pub...

In addition, the Declaration of Peace joins with United for Peace in Justice in calling for people to go to Washington, DC to deliver a message to the new Congress to end the occupation. The Declaration of Peace also joins with Voices for Creative Nonviolence in their Occupation Project, a campaign of sustained nonviolent civil disobedience to end the Iraq war. This sustained campaign begins February 5 and will continue for 8 weeks. Its aim: to pressure members of Congress to publicly declare they will vote against any further funding of the war in and occupation of Iraq. Visit: http://ent.groundspring.org/EmailNow/pub...

******

The Declaration of Peace is calling YOU!

The Declaration of Peace Outreach and Local Organizing Committees are making phone calls to local organizers across the country to get ready for the next steps in the campaign. Between January and March 2007, the Declaration of Peace campaign plans to increase pressure on the U.S. Congress to stop funding the war and occupation, and to initiate a plan for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. To make this a reality, we need your continued participation. Because Phase 2 is even more grassroots-driven, we hope you will get more involved in the Declaration of Peace. If you want to volunteer as a local organizer in your community, see contact information below.

Volunteers Needed: Calls to our more than 600 Endorsing Organizations will

I don't believe it's fair to insinuate that I'm anti-Semitic.  I am, however, anti-Zionist fundis as well as anti- Xtian Fundis who claim to have the truth and the true *god.*  Doesn't matter where they live, here or Israel.  They're crackpots.

When we used terms like "Zionist", "Israel apologist" and nefariously hint at someone's "family history" .....how is that NOT anti-semitic?"

Perhaps you should re-watch Moyers program on Zionism.

Lieberman is definitely an Israel apologist.  Just listen to him with an open mind.

Family history refers, not to ethnicity, but to the type and kind of parents, siblings and upbringing he had.  That tells us a lot about what a person might be like.

I question his objectivity in everything, since he condones needles under the fingernails. He's sly and knows how to twist words as evidenced in what's his names trial. By attacking the credibility of Carter, he's in essence putting needles under his fingernails.  

Why are people so touchy about a subject that we should all be discussing w/o being called anti-Semitic?  Jeez.  What is wrong with this country that has its head in the sand while we, with Israel, blow up the ME?

*** cChalfonte***

------------------------

while I applaud your presenting the actual quotes, what you say on this thread is contradicting what those quite showed....

Dershowitz succeeded only in proving himself to be a devious muck-racker, fabricating the much no less.

finis.

much = muck

56. Kimmy - I'll bet your kids are looking forward to it.

I don't believe it's fair to insinuate that I'm anti-Semitic.....

------------------

Exactly - Is one anti-American if one criticizes Bush and right-wing American militarism?

57.

kimmy cash


LOL

Dershowitz is famous for making guilty people look innocent, and I would imagine also innocent people look guilty.  He's a master at that and we've seen him in action.

I don't like him as a person period.

I'd like to vote for someone who has he cajones to say that our US/Israel policy needs drastic overhauling.

I was happy with Howard's statement about having an even-handed approach in I/P which caused the Jews in Congress to draft a complaint against him.  Remember that?

Wake up! 

By attacking the credibility of Carter, he's in essence putting needles under his fingernails.  --

He didn't attack President Carter's credibility, seashell.  He questioned the veracity of a number of statements made by Carter in his book.  That's fair.

Questioning the veracity of statements is not "putting needles under his nails".

The quotes are verified.  imo, he didn't misstate or put Carter's comments out of context.  I placed the quotes up for all to see if they are interested.

re. fundie this and fundie that....some people ARE religious, sea, and that certainly includes Jimmy Carter. (I'm no more fond of fundies than you are, btw;)

I'm going to read the book but one more quote from Dershowitz:

He [Carter] lectured Golda Meir on Israeli's "secular" nature, warning her that "Israel was punished whenever its leaders turned away from devout worship of God."

(Does Carter really think that Israel should become more religious, and that this would increase the chances for peace? Or would he criticize Israel even more strongly if it accepted his parochial advice?)

Sorry about the "wake up" part of my last post, but I get so frustrated with peoples' inability to look past the tag *anti-Semitic* defense.

From now on, I won't jump into this .... until the  next time.  LOL

seashell

---------------

Notice how Dershowitz chose not to discuss the issues presented in the book, but rather brought up issues by which he could attempt to present Carter as a fantasizing, exagerating idiot.

Dershowitz in no way implied that President Carter is an idiot nor did he imply that he fantasizes.  Again, he questioned the veracity of a number of Carter's statements.

He [Carter] lectured Golda Meir on Israeli's "secular" nature, warning her that "Israel was punished whenever its leaders turned away from devout worship of God."

-----------------

How can you make a case from this statement without putting it in full context?

  This statement alone is provocative, but in a conversation of similar statements in a religious conversation can have a totally different meaning.  Read the book and give us the whole page, not bumper-stickers phrases.

"GOP '08: Hagel's out?
by Kagro X
Fri Dec 29, 2006 at 04:53:07 PM PST

Local blog sources say Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) is not only taking a pass on the 2008 Pennsylvania Avenue sweepstakes, he's also opting out of a Senate reelection bid, too -- a bid in which he was, by most accounts, a lock.

If the reports pan out, what are we witnessing here?

In light of the White House's charge, head-on, into the 11% solution, the looming prospect of Constitutional confrontation between the branches, and the very public loss of heart among fellow Congressional Republicans (like Gordon Smith), are we seeing a collapse of the Republican Rubber Stamp bulwark upon which the foundations of the White House's bunker mentality has rested? Merely a fraying around the edges? Or just another round of Republican casualties of the failed Bush agenda?"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1...

cC, where does this quote come from, please?

He [Carter] lectured Golda Meir on Israeli's "secular" nature, warning her that "Israel was punished whenever its leaders turned away from devout worship of God."

Is this from Carter's book?  Hard to believe he actually lectured on this.  However, on one level, he's right. It takes humility to ask your particular idea of god/spirit for guidance.  Going it alone in spiritual matters is dangerous.  In Bush's case, he's going it alone convinced he's doing the will of his god.  I don't know  what Olmert is doing spiritually, but I'm not in favor of it or him.

  How one thinks of Spirit/God makes all the difference between pardoning or hanging, lying or telling the truth, admitting mistakes or denying them, invading countries or bringing peace and prosperity to them.

Bush's god is evil, capricious, war-mongering - a projection of his shadow which he won't look at.

As long as some think that god punishes people, those people will continue to punish others.

 Another tangent, geez.  I'll go away for awhile.  :-)

sigh, the quote was from Dershowitz, Fred.  It isn't my statement. 

It DOES seem that Dershowitz implies, in his review, that Carter is anti-semitic.  THAT I do not buy.

I'll leave this alone for now.  I've enjoyed the new civility here on the blog and I want that to continue.

I'll post something after I've read the book. 

sigh, the quote was from Dershowitz, Fred.  It isn't my statement.

-------------------

Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile - but it is frustrating for me because I loaned my copy to my neighbor to read

The dirty little secret of all these atrocities is that they happened in so-called “Gun Free School Zones.” Prior to the enactment of that horribly misguided federal legislation and its state-level clones, one never read about school massacres because there weren’t any. The Gun Free School Zones Act transformed the public school landscape into a free-fire zone for whackos by removing any possibility, however small, that an armed teacher, student or private citizen might be present to intervene. As a result, monsters like Colorado’s Duane Morrison or Pennsylvania’s Charles Roberts, and a host of others have committed mayhem, courtesy of gun control fanatics who pressured Congress and state legislatures to pass such statutes.

The exception is Luke Woodham, who shot up Mississippi’s Pearl High School in 1997 after slitting his mother’s throat. Midway through his spree, Woodham encountered Vice Principal Joel Myrick, who had rushed to his car to retrieve a .45-caliber pistol. Myrick aimed the gun at Woodham’s head and held him until police arrived.

You read little about Myrick’s heroism, and less about his handgun, in press reports.

After the Pennsylvania attack on an Amish school in Lancaster County, anti-gun Gov. Ed Rendell had a remarkable moment of candor when he admitted that tougher gun laws would not have stopped the gunman. “You can make all the changes you want,” Rendell said, “but you can never stop a random act of violence by someone intent on taking his own life.”

His remarks were largely ignored because nobody wants to admit that Rendell is right about this, same as they overlooked Myrick and his gun. Such facts don’t fit the anti-gun agenda.

It is time to re-consider gun-free school zone laws and the zero-tolerance mentality such laws foster. Inflexible regulations aimed at keeping kids safe also place teachers in jeopardy. A teacher in Lacey, Wash. was recently suspended for having a gun in her purse. Licensed to carry, she was afraid of her estranged husband, against whom she has a domestic violence protection order, and has filed for divorce. But now she’s in trouble; allegedly victimized by her spouse and again by the law.

We can no longer afford the empty-headed Utopian illusion that such statutes keep anyone safe, because they don’t. Like other restrictive gun control measures, this one has been a monumental failure, and it is literally killing our children.

Nobody is suggesting that all teachers arm themselves, but scrapping the law restores that option. School massacres didn’t happen in the days when high schools had rifle teams, and when it was common in the fall to find both teachers and students with rifles or shotguns locked in their cars. That was before “gun” became a four-letter word among self-described “progressive liberals” who championed gun-free zones.

If what’s happening at schools today is “progress,” we might be better off – and a lot of students would still be alive – if we were back in those unenlightened days when school kids riding down country roads with .22 rifles across their bicycle handlebars alarmed nobody.

In the wake of our most recent school shootings, reaction from the gun control crowd has been pathetic. Brady Campaign President Paul Helmke blustered that “we need to do something about that.” He suggested a national dialogue, as if more talk will stop suicidal maniacs.

His bunch has done enough already, with the help of gun-grabbing Congressional demagogues like Charles Schumer, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and their far left colleagues, and an all-too-cooperative “mainstream” press. They gave us a law that leaves our children and their teachers vulnerable to the whims of any nutball looking for 15 minutes of fame because of real or imagined problems or perversions.

Restrictive gun laws do not prevent crime and the notion of a gun-free school zone is a myth. More restrictions on law-abiding citizens will never stop people like Morrison or Roberts who proved yet again that feel-good laws have defrauded American citizens, and especially our children, of genuine safety.

Alan Gottlieb is chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (www.ccrkba.org). Dave Workman is the senior editor of Gun Week published by the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org).

42.

DANIEL ROONEY
Fri, 12/29/06
7:43 pm

Lawyer Ends Up Dead After Taking On Rove

....It sure does soud fishy, doesn't it. He definitely does not seem like the type to kill himself, or in such a public forum on top of that, huh?

and

" add two more for bush an dick an we have a real party, "

Loved it!

so...the news anchors are no longer, "well-suited";)....they are "newsies".

I confess....had to take a peek *over there*. 

Gun or not guns are not the problem.  We have a screwed up society and we're always looking for bandaids,  instead of causes, reasons, dialogue.

If we had healthy kids and adults, we could have a zillion guns and they wouldn't be used against other people - like in Canada.  They have guns, but few murders.

What does it say about a child (and our society) that kills other children and then himself? This children killing children thing is very new in the last 10 years or so.  What is happening to our children that they are doing this?  Is it TV, violent video games, crazy parents?  Who is not loving them and giving them good self-esteem?

Didn't I say I was going away for awhile?   I'm like a moth to a flame tonight.  I think I'm trying to erase the cruelty of the hanging about to happen.

I wonder what it would feel like to live in a country that wasn't so violent and where we didn't have to lock doors?  I grew up in that country but the country has changed. 

In a Friday sermon, a mosque preacher in the Shiite holy city of Najaf called Saddam's execution "God's gift to Iraqis."--AP

"Oh, God, you know what Saddam has done! He killed millions of Iraqis in prisons, in wars with neighboring countries and he is responsible for mass graves," said Sheik Sadralddin al-Qubanji, a member of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, known as SCIRI, a dominant party in al-Maliki's coalition. "Oh God, we ask you to take revenge on Saddam."----

Josh Marshall's analysis is the most accurate and poignant I've seen: "Hanging Saddam is easy. It's a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.... This is the best we can do. Hang Saddam Hussein because there's nothing else this president can get right."

--Steve Benen 

This whole endeavor, from the very start, has been about taking tawdry, cheap acts and dressing them up in a papier-mache grandeur -- phony victory celebrations, ersatz democratization, reconstruction headed up by toadies, con artists and grifters. And this is no different. Hanging Saddam is easy. It's a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.

Try to dress this up as an Iraqi trial and it doesn't come close to cutting it -- the Iraqis only take possession of him for the final act, sort of like the Church always left execution itself to the 'secular arm'. Try pretending it's a war crimes trial but it's just more of the pretend mumbojumbo that makes this out to be World War IX or whatever number it is they're up to now.

The Iraq War has been many things, but for its prime promoters and cheerleaders and now-dwindling body of defenders, the war and all its ideological and literary trappings have always been an exercise in moral-historical dress-up for a crew of folks whose times aren't grand enough to live up to their own self-regard and whose imaginations are great enough to make up the difference. This is just more play-acting.

--Josh Marshall  (go Josh!)

Can't wait until Dubya follows Saddam into nothingness.

As Einstein once said, "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." smart guy that albert.

12/29/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- The execution of Saddam Hussein is another grim chapter in the catalogue of war crimes perpetrated against the Iraqi people. It is a gratuitous act of barbarism devoid of justice.

What right does Bush have to kill Saddam? What right does the author of Abu Ghraib, Falluja, Haditha and countless other atrocities have to pass judgment on the former leader of a nation which posed no threat to the United States?

Let’s be clear, the lowliest, most ruthless Iraqi has more right to rule Iraq than the most upright American. That’s what’s meant by “self determination”. When we honor “self rule” we avoid bloody interventions like the invasion of Iraq.

Bush believes that killing Saddam will achieve the “closure” which has eluded him through 4 years of occupation. But he is mistaken. Saddam’s death will only eliminate any opportunity for a political solution. Reconciliation will be impossible and Saddam will die as a hero.

Is that what Bush wants?

Or does Bush really know what he wants? Perhaps, he is just a war-mongering psychopath completely disconnected from reality.

Capital punishment is a moral evil. The state never has the right to kill its own people regardless of their crimes; Saddam is no exception. But the premeditated murder of Saddam is particularly appalling, because it is stupid as well as unjust. It cuts off dialogue with the very people (the Ba’athist-led resistance) who need to be entered into the political process to achieve normalization. Bush is destroying his last chance for a negotiated settlement and paving the way for America’s total defeat.

It’s complete madness.

The Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, told the Times Online that “the deposed president could be hanged ‘within hours’” and that his death sentence would be executed by Saturday at the latest.

Munir Haddad, the presiding judge on the appeals court, said, “All the measures have been done. There is no reason for delays.”

Plans are already underway to film the entire event.

It’s impossible to imagine a more fitting summary of 6 years of Bush rule than video-footage of Saddam’s limp figure dangling at the end of a rope. The pictures will no doubt replace the iconic photos of the hooded Abu Ghraib prisoner who appeared in headlines across the world.

The United States will pay a heavy price for Bush’s savagery. The war is already going badly and this latest travesty will only quicken America’s inevitable withdrawal.

America has become a moral swamp, its leaders incapable of wisdom or mercy. Hanging Saddam only adds to our mutual disgrace and exposes the real face of American justice.

did I miss kimmy again?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

love at ya

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

at least these storms are ending the fire danger on the high plains and watering the wheat crop

the symbolism of handing over Saddam should not be lost

hand over the rest of the job and come home

Phil, great idea. That should be a slogan.




"When you hand over Saddam, hand over the keys to Iraq, too.
End US Ocuupation, Bring our troops home."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061230/ts_n...

Saddam reportedly executed.

last chance for a exit

Bush has never made a right decision yet so I'm doubtful he'll take it.

90....along with a half-brother and a judge from Saddam's administration.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB110/index.htm#doc2

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB110/index.htm#doc2

On McLaughlin group tonight they did a bunch of 'best/worst' of '06. One of their categories was most underrated people of '06. Both Pat Buchanan and the lady from Newsweek (Eleanor ? senior moment sorry) said most underrated was Howard Dean because his 50 state strategy worked.

Linda in SFNM and others, stay warm and safe with your storm. I'm going to attempt bed now -- new stray beagle snoring loudly.

http://www.calendarlive.com/music/cl-et-...

Too many notes? Not in abbreviated Mozart opera
Trimmed to just 100 minutes, the Met's English-language version of 'Magic Flute' aims to lure families.

By Ronald Blum, Associated Press

Rene Pape, the acclaimed German bass, will sing in the Saturday matinee.

----

Pape is the only singer this writer bothers to mention :~)

83. Bush is responsible for many more deaths. He'll get his due one day...

-----------
Annilow - Great to hear tributes to Howard on The McLaughlin Group. Sorry I missed it.

We snowshoed to the neighbors for chili. We had so much fun. There is so much snow - the roads are completely illuminated. Just lovely.

Nite folks.

Saddam Hussein dead.................but was it REALLY worth 3000 of our own and more certainly to follow?  I dont think so folks....................

95. and 96.

Annilow

What exciting news......yeaaaahhhhh Howard Dean!!! And thank you, I will. Like a kid, I just went out and measured the snow on my table again....we're at 17 inches.

How sweet of you to take in a doggie. I had a beagle once. Sleep well.

100.  I don't think so either.  You get rid of one bully, another one fills the vacuum.

Robert Fisk: A dictator created then destroyed by America
Saddam to the gallows. It was an easy equation. Who could be more
deserving of that last walk to the scaffold - that crack of the neck at
the end of a rope - than the Beast of Baghdad, the Hitler of the
Tigris, the man who murdered untold hundreds of thousands of innocent
Iraqis while spraying chemical weapons over his enemies? Our masters
will tell us in a few hours that it is a "great day" for Iraqis and
will hope that the Muslim world will forget that his death sentence was
signed - by the Iraqi "government", but on behalf of the Americans - on
the very eve of the Eid al-Adha, the Feast of the Sacrifice, the moment
of greatest forgiveness in the Arab world.

But history will record that the Arabs and other Muslims and, indeed,
many millions in the West, will ask another question this weekend, a
question that will not be posed in other Western newspapers because it
is not the narrative laid down for us by our presidents and prime
ministers - what about the other guilty men?

No, Tony Blair is not Saddam. We don't gas our enemies. George W Bush
is not Saddam. He didn't invade Iran or Kuwait. He only invaded Iraq.
But hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead - and thousands
of Western troops are dead - because Messrs Bush and Blair and the
Spanish Prime Minister and the Italian Prime Minister and the
Australian Prime Minister went to war in 2003 on a potage of lies and
mendacity and, given the weapons we used, with great brutality.

In the aftermath of the international crimes against humanity of 2001
we have tortured, we have murdered, we have brutalised and killed the
innocent - we have even added our shame at Abu Ghraib to Saddam's shame
at Abu Ghraib - and yet we are supposed to forget these terrible crimes
as we applaud the swinging corpse of the dictator we created...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk...

mary vb...Good to hear. I'm now looking in to snowshoes for me and hubby. This will be very exciting. Have a good night.


++++


Mike, Hardly worth it. No way, no how and anyone who thinks so is about as dillusional as Bush. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed and over 3000 Military Troops KIA. Over 20,000 maimed, over 120 Reporters and how many died in relation to Iraq. This is disgusting. And however Bush and his NeoCons try to spin this, you CAN NOT CHANGE THE FACTS and they will have to LIVE WITH the knowledge of what they have done.

Evening all.

88. One of my favorites. Thanks again for the shirt, it came out great on the black!

Lat chance for exit, but this worst.adminsitration.ever doesn't get it.

Rene moved into a hospice facility today.

Saddam Hussein dead.................but was it REALLY worth 3000 of our own and more certainly to follow?  I dont think so folks.................... 

A dead Hussein isn't worth one dead American -- and America STILL isn't any safer. 

Rene moved into a hospice facility today.

The BFA Rene -- from Ohio? 

104.
Evening Thankful, hope all is well. Toothpicks holding my eyelids open so not sticking around long...busy, busy day.

105.
You've got that right Sitka, in fact, I do believe we're less safe. Thousands upon thousands of lives, billions upon billions of dollars, hatred upon more hatred around the globe. For what?

Sitka - my brother, Rene, not Renee of Ohio.

Thanks Reed - he's relatively comfortable.

It's fun watching all the old material roll out in an effort to impress the unsuspecting.  :-) 

Hi, Thankful.   Love to you and Rene.

It sounds like you provided him a nice respite but then you do say "kindness is free".

Hi jc, scrolling the thread I see a new bumper sticker...it appears you're trying to imply something...hmmm. lol

jc ♥

Reed, thank you. The last couple weeks were ones we'll treasure forever, as well as the time remaining. I don't mean to turn the thread to this topic though...

Who now harms America more:

1) An insane president, unquestionably immoral, cruel and incompetent,or

2) Spineless, ever seeking politcal advantage rather than doing the right thing, Democrats who refuse to put impeachment on the table.

Color me disgusted! 

or go right to Riverbend's blog here

113. Reed

Subtle, huh?  LOL 

ROFL - subtle starts when?

Odd thing...........in 2003 as our military began its virtual unimpeded advance across the Iraqi desert..........there was a tremendous black sandstorm that brought our forces to a virtual, stopped the dead in their tracks..........................

Today, as Saddam Hussein was to be eecuted, in Crawford Texas  there was a tornadoe warning............our brave President and his cohorts cowardly withdrew to an armoured car...........

Could these natural phenomena be a warning to this country...............have we provoked what will be the wrath of God upon us?

Glad to hear Saddam is hanging deader than a doornail.  I'm sort of celebrating right now...
Cheers

________________________________________________________________________

Well Holdek..........sometime today or tomorrow an American will be killed...............of course, your bravery goes no further than your couch and six pack of beer..........right?

Saddam will have the last laugh probably................

121. Mike

Shhh, he's been trying to convince us he's a tough guy! Play along.

118. Thankful

Maybe next incarnation.  ;-) 

120. ::sigh:: No more than one falling ill is heavenly retribution.

jc - One never knows, but I love ya just how you are this incarnation :-)

126. We know, we know!  LOL

Nope Saddam is dead and gone and I am happy about that.  

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Holdek,

You need to get a life pal...............of course you evangelical nutcases in Texas love this sort of stuff dont ya? 

You represent the worst side of this screwed up society buddy...............

118.
That is subtle...for jc. Notice the nice subtle earth tone colors.

126.

I'm impressed...not!!!

127. I love you just how you are, too!

Thankful. Big hug filled with love to you and Rene.

Thank you Linda. There have been so many ups and downs and in between, surely more of that to come, but we're hanging in there. Love your snow pics - keep warm!

130. Reed in VT

I can't take credit for the colors.  I, uh, sorta, uh, borrowed them. 

Of course. I'm sorry. 

129.
Psst...Mike. What do you bet he has a flight suit like W's to dress up in? You know those that haven't learned to check their testosterone at the door prefer to show it off, they just don't realize it makes them look smaller (as far as being civilized that is).

Sitka - no prob, sorry to have given you worry about Renee.

btw - good thread topic. I'm with George on tossing Hillary, Kerry and Edwards... Hoping for a progressive to step forward.

Well, it's all over for Edwards anyway.  Rocky just posted his prediction that Edwards will be the nominee.  LOL (I knew it was the kiss of death.)

But the most salient sentences in Baker's chapter on his tenure at State are about Iraq. "For years," he writes, "the question I was most often asked about Desert Storm is why we did not remove Saddam Hussein from power." He explained why in The Politics of Diplomacy,[7] but for reasons that should be obvious he feels compelled to restate them here:

...If Saddam were captured and his regime toppled, American forces would still have been confronted with the specter of a military occupation of indefinite duration to pacify a country and sustain a government in power. The ensuing urban warfare would surely have resulted in more casualties to American GIs than the war itself, thus creating a political firestorm at home. And as much as Saddam's neighbors wanted to see him gone, they feared Iraq would fragment in unpredictable ways that would play into the hands of the mullahs in Iran, who could export their brand of Islamic fundamentalism with the help of Iraq's Shiites and quickly transform themselves into a dominant regional power. Finally, the Security Council resolution under which we were operating authorized us to use force only to kick Iraq out of Kuwait, nothing more. As events have amply dem-onstrated, these concerns were valid. I am no longer asked why we did not remove Saddam in 1991!

via www.nybooks.com/articles/19773

I have noticed that most of the diaries on Edwards on Daily Kos aren't making it to the recommended list.

btw - good thread topic.

Indeed. I can't remember BFA taking such a direct shot across the establishment's bow for what seems like ages. I hope it's just the beginning of a new attitude -- or reversion to the one that brought us here in the first place.

Thankful, will do, but after being sick this week and being couped up, I just put on boots, wool coat, my mad bomber wool cap and ran outside to say I went out in the snow. Neil said I was scaring all the straights. LOL He was trying to take pictures of me looking foolish picking different spots to measure how deep the snow was. Of course, I left out that the boots were my old western boots and I was wearing plaid flannels, I'm sure a site not many have seen.

With that brief stint of fun, snow up to my knees, I had to turn around, come in, take all that off-including my pants, now because they were wet too. Was it worth it? Sure, some good laughs.

137.

Thankful2Thankful4Dean

So, is that "By George, he's got it!"

:)

144.

What, no snow angels Linda?

Reed LOL ... I was /\ (this close)

But, being I still have fluid in my head, I thought was pushing the envelope a bit.

Linda - do you think we could persuade Neil to post those pics? LOL, sounds like a lot of fun. Yes, George Hunt gets it, will GW ever? (not holding my breath)

Thoughts on the things we have done in Iraq.   We were so wrong.    Quotes from Riverbend and other blogs in Iraq.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/866

Thankful, LOL, thankfully they weren't coming out, because it's too dark and he didn't replace the old camera yet. Trust me, if they did, he would only be too willing. He couldn't help take a photo of me standing at the door way when he first went out to take pictures and I was trying to stay warm by just peaking out and I slammed the door on my own head. Nice, huh? No loyalty here, I swear....but he emailed it to me, he didn't load it up on the picasa page.

Time to turn in. Nite.

♥'s to all.

Kindness is free

Linda - take care and hugs to you both.

I'm right behind ya...seeing as I'm yawning on every third breath.

Nite, all.  Are we safe yet?

floridagal, it actually is sickening me that we have reached this place. I know I've been off topic, but I really can't think about this Presidents horrible actions and conduct, all under the name of AMERICA, more tonight. As the putz is probably sleeping off his upcoming hangover. He has become the most hated, disrespected and laughed at man. And all for good reason.

On that note, I better sign off for the nite.

All be well.

jc....

BTW, If W believes in "signs", he should have heeded to this one.



President takes cover during tornado scare

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- President Bush and first lady Laura Bush were moved to an armored vehicle on their ranch Friday when a tornado warning was issued in central Texas, the White House said.

The vehicle was driven to a tornado shelter on the ranch at 1:30 p.m. CT, and the president, the first lady and their two Scottish terriers, Barney and Miss Beazley, sat inside until the weather cleared, deputy White House press secretary Scott Stanzel said. They were never moved into the shelter, he said. The shelter is a few hundred yards away from the president's house on the ranch.

BTW, If W believes in "signs", he should have heeded to this one.



President takes cover during tornado scare

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- President Bush and first lady Laura Bush were moved to an armored vehicle on their ranch Friday when a tornado warning was issued in central Texas, the White House said.

The vehicle was driven to a tornado shelter on the ranch at 1:30 p.m. CT, and the president, the first lady and their two Scottish terriers, Barney and Miss Beazley, sat inside until the weather cleared, deputy White House press secretary Scott Stanzel said. They were never moved into the shelter, he said. The shelter is a few hundred yards away from the president's house on the ranch.

157.  Actually, I'm stalking Edwards.  You stalk Dean.  Potatoes, Potahtoes.

You do your thing.  I'll do mine. 

160. Did their house at least fall on the wicked witch?

You did your thing and I did mine -- which is to remind people to ignore trolls. Whether people do or not is their business. But responding only eggs the trolls on and and helps them put more poison on the blog.

President takes cover during tornado scare

It was a natural for him since he already has a bunker mentality. 

165. Sitka

I don't happen to buy that particular theory.  But, I certainly have no problem with you believing it.

165. Sitka

I do try to let "my thing" NOT be dependent on changing the behavior of others.

It seems to have gotten rid of Troler.

People were talking the other day about the networks already having their Gerald Ford stories ready.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-89770458144460734&hl=en 

I do try to let "my thing" NOT be dependent on changing the behavior of others.

The IGNORE button came from you, didn't it? 

170.  Yeah, and so did some Kerry stickers.  When someone makes a request for graphics, I often fulfill the request.  (In this case, it was our good buddy, puddle.)  Don't make the mistake of thinking that I adhere to all the words found within my thousands of graphics.

It seems to have gotten rid of Troler

And, when he returns, will you still want the credit.  Don't be fooled.  He senses another campaign he can try to damage before his buddy McCain announces. 

Sitka,

The Gerald Ford video is funny.  ;-) 

Don't make the mistake of being hoisted on your own petard!

But by all means, keep engaging and encouraging trolls if that's your thing. But be warned that I, and hopefully others, will keep respectfully asking you not to.

G'nite. 

He senses another campaign he can try to damage before his buddy McCain announces.

I was wondering if he was banned or something. But today it occurred to me that the Edwards blog must be full of hopes and dreams that he's just dying to dump on. He's gotta be drawn to that like a moth to a flame.

175. Jennie

Yes, LOTS of hopes to dash!  :-) 

174. Sitka

I remember some times when we were being asked to ignore you.  What goes around comes around.  One person's troll is another's good buddy.  If you're happy setting yourself up as the decider of trolls, have fun. 

Still, it's sad to see his little one pacing back and forth on this blog, with no lap to settle on.

178. I just hope he had the decency to cover his head while he was nursing on that beer bottle.  That had to be an offensive sight.

Republicans, Huh, Yeah, What Are They Good For?

by Devilstower

ang on a second.  I'm sure I have the answer to that question around here someplace.

Smaller government!  That's it.  Republicans have always stood for smaller government that promotes that good American "rugged individualism."

President Bush's second-term agenda would expand not only the size of the federal government but also its influence over the lives of millions of Americans by imposing new national restrictions on high schools, court cases and marriages.

Okay, maybe not.  But fiscal responsibility.  That's always been a Republican issue.

Faced with a potential government shutdown, the Senate votes to raise the nation's debt limit for the fourth time in five years.

So money's not their thing.  Thank goodness they know how to manage the military.

The invasion of Iraq was the "greatest strategic disaster in United States history," a retired Army general said yesterday.

More...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/12/30/15249/360

ang = Hang

Daniel Rooney, where is that photo from?

I'm glad I went dancing to avoid the grimness of Saddams death. They're still blathering about him on CNN and I turned it off. 

So now that it's ok to execute a head of state for crimes against humanity, who's next?  What a sick and twisted mind inside bush and it will catch up with him 10 fold.  I'm sure his twisted mind tonight is telling him how right he is, how good a president, how justified his invasion.  What a truly sick man, filled with self-loathing which he projects onto others. 

This is bush unmasked.

This is putz with his mask on.

It is an important milestone on Iraq's course to becoming a democracy that can govern, sustain, and defend itself
US President George W Bush  

  REPORT: EXPLOSION AT MADRID AIRPORT PARKING LOT AT TERMINAL FOUR; FOLLOWED TELEPHONE WARNING... DEVELOPING...

I can't find any more info on this ...

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- A powerful explosion apparently caused by a car bomb caused extensive damage to Spain's busiest airport Saturday, police said, but there were no reports of casualties.

The explosion after 0800 GMT followed a warning to police, who were able to evacuate part of Madrid's Barajas International Airport. It was not clear who gave the warning.

Witnesses described a huge column of smoke billowing out from the scene of the blast.

Samantha Graham, an employee of CNN's parent company who was in an airport concourse for a flight, said hundreds of people evacuated the terminal through jetways and have gathered outside on the airport tarmac.

CNN's Madrid bureau chief Al Goodman said the explosion caused a collapse of part of the affected airport terminal and extensive damage to glass.

Goodman said that previous explosions preceded by a warning in Spain were attributed to the Basque separtist group ETA, blamed for more than 800 deaths.

ETA earlier this year declared a permanent ceasefire, although this has been hit by tensions in recent weeks, Goodman said.

In March 2004, 191 people were killed by bomb attacks on Madrid commuter trains. The attacks, blamed on al-Qaeda-linked militants, were not preceded by any warning.

The airport is Spain's busiest, handling more than 40 million passengers a year, according to the airport's official Web site.

seashell,

Here's another article.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20992637-5001028,00.html 

A car bomb has exploded in the Shi'ite city of Kufa in southern Iraq, killing 30 people and wounding 45.

Ambulances and police have rushed to the scene at a market in Kufa, near Najaf, one of the holiest cities in Iraq for majority Shi'ites.

Police said the market was packed with shoppers ahead of the week-long Eid al-Adha holiday.

They said a mob killed a man they accused of planting the bomb.

The blast took place a few hours after former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein was executed in Baghdad.

Officials had feared the execution would spark more sectarian violence.

Link 

thanks for finding that, jc.

And now I sadly say goodnite.  I truly hope the voters here have learned how to choose more wisely.  None of this 6 year nightmare would have happened under Howard.

Michael wrote;'

"Could these natural phenomena be a warning to this country...............have we provoked what will be the wrath of God upon us? "

Not to worry, Michael. God's into love and forgiveness, not revenge and wrath. Our  minds are likely causing the natural phenomena.  We really need to stop fearing and blaming god and buying into the 2000 year old story about  a punishing god.  The thing is, once people stop fearing and blaming god, they have to take responsibility for everything that happens in their life and in the natural world.  That's where the worm turns and it's much easier to blame and fear god and continue to be victims.

JMHO. 

Forgiveness is the key. 

Thankful, virtual hugs to your brother along with Light and Love. 

Goodnite, jc, and lurkers.

g'nite latesters

so I wake up to a safe world where the bad guys get their just dues and the good guys ride off into the sunset

they are going to ride off right?

want to administer some justice of your own, go to pontiac.com and vote for the Hawkeye goal line stand at Syracuse

after milking I'm going to switch engines in a car and watch football today; enjoy the holidays (and some butter cookies)

thanks for that link tim

Good morning and sorry everybody

It's a sorry day when a man is hanged. Sorrier still to have it done second-hand. Saddam is dead because the Iraqis had lots of American help. Just imagine, in the lands where the law and civilization itself was developed, making one hanging legal required the assistance of the West. That's progress.

14.

Spouse says this needs a little tweaking. WAR did not jump out. Perhaps use different colors or make 'ed' and 'rd' slightly smaller.

I like it, but I think he's got a point. Since I read the text version before I turned on the image, I knew what I was looking for.

Robert Fisk ends his column on Saddam's execution with the observation that
"We will have got away with it"

That's true. But then, most murderers get away with their crime. That's a fact.

I don't know. Perhaps humans murdering each other is an inevitable consequence of the ability to recognize the difference between life and death.

What strikes me as really weird, however, is that the festival commemorating Abraham's reprieve from the "order" to kill his own son, Isaac, is supposedly interpreted by Islam as an event of forgiveness.
Who was being forgiven what in this story? Who had given offense that needed to be forgiven? Was Abraham at fault because he was somewhat reluctant to slay his son when ordered? Surely Isaac was innocent and did not "deserve" to be offed. Was Abraham at fault because he seemed to value his son more than his god? Was it a failure of obedience?
That's actually how the biblical story starts, isn't it? The first humans deserve punishment by being disobedient, not following the order to leave a particular tree (were the trees marked with tags?) alone.
What if they just couldn't remember which one it was? What if they couldn't remember the difference between right and wrong? Is the message that if you can't remember, you're not fit for the human race?
But, I digress. Who was being taught about obedience and why? Was it Isaac who was supposed to get the message that to continue living he must be obedient to his father? This raises the question in my mind whether human males are naturally murderously inclined towards the young and that the survival of the young depends on their ability to be obedient, to follow direction and do what they are told. Is that how the human species has weeded out the dumb (I should say "unintelligent" though it's likely that those who cannot speak were probably likely to be dispatched because they could not communicate at least the intent to obey)?
I'm reminded of the gate to the Presidio which bears the legend "Obedience to the Law is Freedom"
Freedom from what? Freedom to do what? Just to live? Is that what it means? That the ability to exist and move about freely (as a mobile organism is designed to do) is dependent on (hangs from) one's subservience to the law, a bunch of rules and regulations invented by men to define behavior while maintaining the fiction that "not my will, but thine be done."

The law is supposed to be superior to the will of one person. We believe that. It's better to have impersonal laws, formulated through a consensus, directing our behavior than the will of one man.

Indeed, that's where Saddam Hussein went wrong, isn't it? He presumed to set himself up as the law of the land in Iraq. Worse, Saddam Hussein rejected the imperative to be obedient. Ultimately, he could not be trusted because he refused to obey.
And that's why he was ultimately killed by people who went to great lengths to distance themselves from being responsible for the act.

Because that's what it boils down to. Obedience is good because it relieves individuals from being responsible for what they do.

Our morning paper tells us that hundreds of Americans "helped" bring Saddam Hussein to trial, developed the evidence, set up the court procedure and, in the end, handed him back to Iraqis to let him be hanged.

now just hand "security" back to the Iraqis and we're done

the creation myth to me is more one of a demarcation when our species developed a consciousness of the history of when self-awareness of good or bad behavior put us into a conflict with our go with the flow past living in the garden with the rest of the species instead of planting it (challenging "God")

to get back to my theme of the week, cloning animals as replications,not allowed in the food supply  because of any science but because we are uneasy still as a species of "playing God"

Bush's one and only veto of the stem cell bill was because his role as arbiter of "God's will" was being challenged

the next story out of Crawford will be Bush calling the Pope because he can't duhcide on his next course in Iraq

It is a absolutely unbelievable spring like morning here today. The retailers are going to have to really slash prices to get rid of their remaining winter clothes.(I noticed a sign at the farm and home store of 60% off) I'm starting to worry about plants breaking dormancy and then when that inevitable outbreak of artic air hits will make trouble. but I'll take it,everyday the cows spend lying in the pasture saves me $100 worth of bedding, the ground isn't even frozen

phil ♥ to you too... glad i woke for my millionth potty break and a snack to catch you :) going to read more about the whole cloning meat thing now..read something earlier in the week about mechanically engineered somethin or other.. peanuts i wanna say..

hmm cloned meat..hmmm

miss monica *big giant hug*

found a decent starter article on the whole cloned meat issue... eek

Meat and milk from cloned animals may not appear in supermarkets for years despite being deemed by the government as safe to eat. But don't be surprised if "clone-free" labels appear sooner. Ben & Jerry's, for one, wants consumers to know that its ice cream comes from regular cows and not clones. The Ben & Jerry's label already says its farmers don't use bovine growth hormone.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061228/ap_o...

To produce a clone, the nucleus of a donor egg is removed and replaced with the DNA of a cow, pig or other animal. A tiny electric shock coaxes the egg to grow into a copy of the original animal..."

absolutely freaky.

other links on cloned meat found hehe

"Cloned Meat is Extra Delicious" says FDA, Gordon Ramsay
The Spoof (satire), UK - Dec 29, 2006
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?h...
...
FDA: Cloned animals "safe-ish" to eat The Spoof (satire)

Feds Approve Cloned Meat & Milk! Hooray!
Wonkette (satire), DC - Dec 28, 2006
Government scientists have come to the rock-solid conclusion that it’s totally safe to eat cloned meat and dairy products from cloned animals. .
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/clones/...

ok one more, sorry. not many are up anyway, i can clog away

from that wonkette post hehehe

Government scientists have come to the rock-solid conclusion that it’s totally safe to eat cloned meat and dairy products from cloned animals. This basically means that you can stumble upon the Perfect Steak and then get the ID number of the animal, probably through some DNA detector built into next year’s Blackberry models, and continue to eat that steak forever.

.......There is no way anything can go wrong, so don’t worry! (We’re pretty sure this will end up killing off mankind.)

Good morning, kimmy

Glad you are progressing well and the bed-rest seems not too onerous. Assume you're not planning on Demfest this year, but if you were inclined you could bring your brood to just 50 minutes away and they could discover what cold water really feels like (our ponds are spring-fed a nice 45 degrees year 'round).

And this egg grows where? Surely not in a petri dish.

One wonders if they'll ever get to the point where they can plant a fertilized egg inside a male human so man can finally experience the great mystery of life.

morning miss monica :)
i actually did catch your post a few days ago about lodging near by and roughing it :)
i think if i actually made a deanfest id stroke out. of course things have been looking up up up lately ..hmmm.. if i dare say im planning on going i think all my bfa moms might choke me out. couldnt make it to californias own but goin to nh! hahhaah

off to read all these wonkette comments on the cloned meat post.. some pretty witty shit over there

by the way GREAT POST here HQ.. good to see diaries other than hq's on the front


xoxoxoxooxxoxoxooxoxoxoxo

So Saddam is dead ... and just what good has that accomplished?

If it had really been Iraqis who tried and executed him ... or if he had been at the ICC where he would at least have been seen to have had a fair trial (I don't believe that any finaly outcome would ever have been in doubt, but giving the appearance of fairness would have been a great plus) ... perhaps there would be a better feeling about it.  Sic transit tyrannis ...

Bur, that was not how it happened.  What did happen is being seen as stage-managed by the US.

======================

Experts on Iraq react to the execution of Saddam Hussein

It's tawdry. It's not going to achieve anything because of the way the trial was conducted and the way the occupation was conducted. Life in Iraq has become so precarious that many people are saying it was safer under Saddam Hussein - it makes the whole thing look like a poke in the eye as opposed to closure or some kind of contribution to the future of Iraq. The purpose should have been to see justice done in a transparent manner ... the trial was gruesome, occasionally farcical, and failed to fulfil its promise of giving satisfaction.

Mishkat al-Moumin, former environment minister in transitional Iraqi government, now at the Middle East Institute in Washington

Ordinary people who were abused by him will be relieved. His opponents will be relieved when he is finally gone. He abused people severely and his abuses were on a nationwide scale. He killed so many people. At the political level, those who support him might try to take revenge but on the people's side they will feel they have seen justice done.

Kamil Mahdi, Iraqi expatriate, Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, Exeter university

Quite honestly, I don't think much of it any more, given what's happening in Iraq. It will be taken as an American decision. The worst thing is that it's an issue which, in an ideal situation, should have unified Iraq but the Americans have succeeded in dividing the Iraqis.

Toby Dodge, expert on Iraq at Queen Mary College, London university

The new elite were bound to go ahead with the execution because they suffered at his hands. In the long term, though, this means very little in terms of drawing a line under the last four years of occupation or creating a new Iraq. In choosing to kill him, the current government of Iraq have simply reproduced Iraqi history instead of stepping away from the past ... it completes the Islamicisation of the insurgency.

Chris Doyle, director, Council for Arab-British Understanding

For Bush, Blair and their diminishing brotherhood of diehard supporters, Saddam's demise is their sole concrete victory in Iraq in almost four years. This should have been the crowning glory of their efforts, but instead it may pose yet another risk to their demoralised troops. For Iraqis, some will see it as a symbol of the death of the ancien regime. For some Sunnis, Saddam's death represents the final nail in the coffin of their fall from power. But Iraqis may also see this as the humiliation of Iraq as a whole, that their president, however odious, was toppled by outside powers, and is executed effectively at others' instigation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329673124-103550,00.html

kimmy ... howdy there!

Take care!

203. you just know wonkette has got it wrong because scientists are never "rock-solid" about anything. LOL

205. now i dont think they'll EVER go that far! hehe maybe a way for women to carry more but would men really ever ever ...hehe

speaking of babies, wombs etc..

saw an ap article couple of days ago.. 23 year old woman with 2 wombs WOW..lemme see..YEAH! here it is.. one woman, 3 girls, 2 wombs - A woman with two wombs has given birth to triplets, in what is believed to the first case of its kind, on safari, cant link text hmm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/na...

Noticed some reference to this upthread ... ETA keeps doing itself in by such actions ... progress until this was being made.

===========

3 Hurt in Car Bombing at Madrid Airport

Saturday December 30, 2006 12:16 PM

AP Photo JJ803

By HAROLD HECKLE

Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain (AP) - A car bomb exploded in a parking lot at Madrid's glittery new airport terminal on Saturday, following a warning call from the Basque separatist group ETA, officials said. Twenty-six people were slightly injured, most of them with damage to their ears from the shockwave.

The blast halted all air traffic on one of the year's busiest travel days and brought a fiery end to an nine-month-old ETA cease-fire that had spurred the greatest hopes in a decade of a peaceful end to the conflict.

More than 800 people have died since the ETA took up arms in the late 1960s.

The timing of the explosion - just hours after the execution in Baghdad of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein - caused initial fears that Islamic militants might be involved. But officials soon discounted that, saying that two warning calls were received in the Basque region just before the explosion.

[...]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6311937,00.html 

206.
Well, the Manchester, NH airport is really easy to get to, especially if you can catch Southwest, on the ground and in the air.
"roughing it" only comes into the picture if there are more than four or five unrelated adult guests. Half a dozen children on air mattresses wouldn't even be close. There are four flushing johns. LOL

This must be Linda's storm ... snow may be on the way after all, Phil!

=============

Storm Lingers, Brings Blizzard to Plains

Saturday December 30, 2006 11:46 AM

By CATHERINE TSAI

Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) - A winter storm that grounded scores of flights and hampered holiday travel eased its grip on the Denver area but moved Saturday into eastern Colorado, piling snowdrifts 8 feet high and freezing road travel.

The storm was expected to produce blizzard conditions and could dump up to 16 inches of snow across eastern Colorado, Kansas and New Mexico as far south as Albuquerque, forecasters said.

Interstate 70 and several other major east-west highways were closed Saturday from the Rockies east into Kansas. Interstate 25 heading south into New Mexico was closed at the border.

[...]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6311901,00.html

miss judy xoxoxoxoxo caught a piece of cnn as frankie was watching and they were talking about people dancing around the bodies etc (blech!!!) thanks for that post..

holy braxton hicks! good grief.. you all have to see this preggo tummy o'mine, its phenomenally large. haha i swear women in the store are like, oh its triplets for sure. i dont know what happened here heeh and its not weight anywhere else but there ya know? mina was 10 lbs and i wasnt even close to this. i just have to find an appropriate pic to share..maybe ill photoshop a ribbon or blankie on some of these nudey tooty ones so you can see...fing freaky

ok, off to the endless wit at wonk and now that article..

xoxox tons of friggin love to you all

A very big OOPs ... !

===========

A vast ice shelf in the Canadian Arctic has broken up, a further sign of the astonishing rate at which polar ice is now melting because of global warming.

The Ayles ice shelf, more than 40 square miles in extent - over five times the size of central London - has broken clear from the coast of Ellesmere Island, about 500 miles south of the North Pole in the Canadian Arctic, it emerged yesterday.

The broken shelf has formed an ice island, in what a leading scientist described as a "dramatic and disturbing event", citing climate change as the cause.

The news caps a dramatic year of discovery about just how quickly the polar ice is disappearing.

It comes as America's leading climate scientist, James Hansen, warns in today's Independent that the Earth is being turned into "a different planet" because of the continuing increase in man-made emissions of greenhouse gases.

The break-up of the Ayles shelf occurred 16 months ago, in an area so remote it was not at first detected. "This is a dramatic and disturbing event," said Professor Warwick Vincent of Laval University in Quebec City. "It shows that we are losing remarkable features of the Canadian North that have been in place for many thousands of years."Ice shelves float on the sea, but are connected to land (as opposed to ice sheets, which are wholly land-based). In the past five years, several ice shelves along the fringes of the Antarctic peninsula have started to become unstable or break up. The most spectacular was the 2002 collapse of the Larsen B ice shelf, the size of Luxembourg.

Until now, there had not been a similar event among the six major shelves remaining in Canada's Arctic, which are packed with ancient ice that is more than 3,000 years old.

[...]

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2112609.ece

212
ahh so thats what you meant by roughing it..i was hoping to show these rugrats that when i say "please keep your room clean" im not stalin--show em what real work is.. im telling you when i ask them to keep stuff picked up sheesh! they act like im assaulting their very souls!

maybe ill send em out to farmin' phils for a week

ok, enough of my chatty mouth
xoxoxoxoxooxoxox

kimmy ... hang in there ... how much longer?

My new grandbaby is due to make her appearance on Dec. 31 ... a New Year's baby perhaps?

Maybe we can hook the two up sometime, somehow ... .

This place is sort of like a sit-com isn't it? "Cheers" where everybody knows your name and you can drop in any time.

I'm afraid that once the euphoria among the Bushies and their stooges evaporates, this is what will be remembered.

===============

It should have been a historic opportunity. For the first time since the end of the Second World War, a tyrant and his henchmen were being put on trial for crimes against humanity by a special domestic court.

Yet the first trial against Saddam Hussein, in which he was charged with human rights violations dating back to 1982, was so rife with defects that the guilty verdict was unsound, according to Human Rights Watch.

In a 97-page report on a trial which centred on the execution of almost 150 Shia Muslims and the arrest of 1,500 in Dujail, Human Rights Watch identified the following flaws:

[...]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2112574.ece

218.

Perhaps that's what most of us love ... BFA IS a great place!

judy, that'd be amazing to do, really.. i have 4 more weeks..congrats to you :) :)

and monica, holy crap it IS cheers!!

a while back during dean days i remember some dude on here saying he wanted to make a show or play about this blog... ha.. talk about drama!

I tell ya........watching the video of old Saddam Hussein march right up to the hangman confidently.......he had one last moment to spit in George Bush' eye..............and he did............

What Americans dont understand about these people is that they believe in a higher calling..they do not fear death..they welcome it and especially against an oppressor............we will never win and more of our own will continue to get killed there and in future wars because our politician do not know any better...........

Another stain on our flag and country..................I tell ya

A vivid symbol is in need of repair ...

================

Standing on the Great Wall of China looking out to where hostile armies from the north once threatened the Middle Kingdom, it is easy to understand how the structure gave this country's ancient emperors a sense of security. Its stout ramparts look down over steep mountainsides and hilly terrain, offering one of the world's most spectacular views.

But the Great Wall was never actually used to withstand an attack. Weakness and corruption within the imperial government allowed invaders to threaten Beijing. Legend has it that Genghis Khan bribed his way past the guards to get into China. Now, rampant development, 13 million visitors a year and wild gangs of party animals are doing more damage to China's most famous landmark than the Mongol hordes ever did.

More than 20 centuries old, the Great Wall once stretched almost 4,000 miles through China, from Gansu province in the west to the city of Shanhaiguan in the east, where it just reaches the Bo Hai Sea. For many years, the Wall was believed to be the only man-made structure visible from space. But these days, China's national symbol is in a sorry state, with only about 1,550 miles of the vast defensive structure left standing.

[...]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2112547.ece

for phil, when he comes back...are you FOR or against this whole cloned meat thing?

so happy my daughters a vegetarian..i should clue in and practice again myself--on her own one day, 5 years old, says shes now a vegetarian... such a trip. and she sticks to it while others are scarfing down chicken nuggets, hot dogs etc. can i get ANY more proud of this little bean? i bet i can :)

anyway anyone else have opinion on that yet? cloned meat, milk etc?

does it fall on the same disgusting lines as "mechanically engineered" for you?

kimmy cash
Sat, 12/30/06
7:58 am

Reply to this

Stay well in these last days ... and a get-together is not all that far-fetched.  The parents to be are in Las Vegas and the father (my son) spends a lot of time in LA ... so who knows?

*************

Last night, I saw the documentary *Blog Wars* ... if you get a chance to, enjoy!  While it mostly features Kos and various blogs associated with the Lamont campaign, there were a few moments when our Maura made an appearance.

wow they actually showed the execution on tv???? good grief (or crikey!)

and good point about the lack of death fear mike.. so fing disturbing. this is going to be the front page news , obviously, on todays la times..im so getting the newspaper and hiding it right away

About cloned meat ... I am not sure ... it doesn't feel right instinctively, but if it can help to feed some of the world's starving populations ...

The US generally is not a starving population, although some here may in fact be starving.

I sense more of a commercial motive as the driving factor.

And with those thoughts, it's off to begin the day.

Have good ones, all! 

219. Does that mean that the executioners were not truly distanced from the responsibility for their deed? Does it mean there's a smidgeon of guilt that adheres?

Humans killing humans are really on a slipper slope. Killing to eat or in self-defense is rather basic in nature. But killing because another is somehow displeasing requires a different dispensation. There's, of course, the prospective self-defense that humans have found useful in dealing with species whose detrimental behavior is rather easy to predict (termites in human habitations come to mind). But that's much less salutary when applied to unpredictable creatures, like other humans, or creatures whose social sense leads them to extract intense revenge (a nest of hornets comes to mind).
Other humans seem rather more forgiving of such behavior than hornets. Perhaps they are actually less social.

Let's console ourselves with that thought. Otherwise, the 660,000 dead Iraqis have occasioned a whole bunch of potential revenge. One hopes that their relatives are easily distracted.

And that hope does not seem entirely baseless. There was a report the other night about Iraqis who have fled to Syria. They were seen disporting themselves at an arcade in bumper cars.
One was tempted to think, "what a frivolous story," but I decided it was good for middle America to see that Iraqis are just like themselves. They like to go out at night and be entertained in an environment of multi-colored electric lights.

One more quibble. I have to challenge the use of the word "outlaw" in the post title. While it's sort of appropriate in that Republicans are always wanting to "outlaw" this or that and convince themselves that's all it takes to make the world right--pass a law to get rid of what you don't like--that's not really what Democrats are about. Maybe shunning would be more effective.
Sort of like ignoring trolls. LOL

kimmy

I am for and against cloning.

replications of existing animals are safe in the food supply

genetically engineered modifications not so fast

transgenic never

with all information on the label and let the consumer decide

all the products of my little co-op Swiss Valley Farms come from cows that have never had injections of rBST

I like the way Ben and Jerrys do it, and of course the organic label on anything lets you make that choice

and love at ya. Mina can come anytime and pet her calf 

The US generally is not a starving population, although some here may in fact be starving.

__________________________________________________________________________

Judy,

I was at last nights NHL game ...........Americans starving? Id say 3/4 of the fans were overweight.......and to boot watching them stuff their faces with cholesterol laden popcorn, roast beef, hot dogs and nachos(at ridiculous prices I might add)........its nauseating..........

Take a walk around your local wal mart...........obesity is not confined to the rich by any stretch of the imagination............

Boo Boo is lonely without Yogi, show some compassion

Edwards just lost several points and several hundreds of thousands in fund-raising by our donating him our troll

keep your fingers crossed he stays a front runner for awhile

Michael Ellis

Hey Mike, I dipped in the water the other night (the hardest part for me) and swam a few laps. Twelve strokes/length (not bad eh?).

Yeah, I remember that. And if those people had followed their own advice the blog would have been better for it.

If you're happy setting yourself up as the decider of trolls, have fun.

I'm just with the OVERWHELMING consensus. But if you like being a set up person for trolls who only come here to anger people and drive them away, have fun.

234. Sitka

Actually, I recognized "Not playing with a whole deck's" motives a long time ago, while most here on the blog were still being suckered in.  What I try to do here is just blog in my own way, and not try to force others to blog my way.  I assume there are people here who find my bumper stickers and your troll graphics far more annoying than the people you'd like them to shun.  Scrolling through blabber is probably easier than avoiding the sight of a graphic.  My graphics have a political message that I like, your graphics have pictures of trolls, which you apparently like.

I don't like the troll images and neither do the creeps they portray. That's probably why they leave when they see them. Whatever it takes.

OUTLAW REPUBLICAN-LITE DEMOCRATS

Bad Idea!

We do not act like Republicans!!!!!!!