Perhaps we should ask our union sisters and brothers to do the same.

Howard Dean is first.

I'll go tell the others that there's a new thread.

Pro Åveng wrote:

"I wonder what your pastor has said or done, Asshat, that you are now guilty guilty guilty of by association?"

Please remember this when you diss HC becuz of what Bill or Ferraro said. 

We've all prolly learned that we are known by the company we keep.

The question of the day:

Who really has the best chance of beating McCain?   Their policies are, for all practical purposes, nearly identical.  Who can withstand the Rove machine the best?  Maybe  some of you  don't care if McCain wins, but I do.  There's a huge difference between  HC and McC and BO and McC.

Poor Howard.

Dan Åbrams comes up right after Keithie with a new program called "Verdict."  ...with Rachael Maddow and 2 others.

It's interesting - it looks at what HC and BO said and then gives us the facts to see who's telling a fib and who isn't...or who's stretching the truth. 

It appears to be very fair to both of them...and hard on both of them.

For instance, BO says he's released his tax records for the last 7 years...not true....quotes to prove that. 

And then HC gets called on putting out a cheap shot..

Very interesting.

Shortcut to: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june08/obama_03-17.html

So, this was impressive?
Our global economic house of cards starts its sliding collapse and this
is Obama's response.  This fluffery non answer or cluelessness is enough
to impress "progressives?"

If Obama knows anything about how to rescue America's economy, he certainly
isn't very forthcoming with the details.  Maybe his next interveiwer will invite 
Mr. Robert Wall Street Rubin along to tell us what President Obama will "do
in reaction to this kind of crisis."

--------------------- 

IFILL: The president said today we are in challenging times. You said yourself that we are teetering on the edge of a potential crisis.

When you watched what the Fed had to do over the weekend, what do you think as president you would do in reaction to this kind of crisis?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Well, obviously, there are some short-term steps that we have to take. And what we have is a crisis of confidence in the credit markets, partly because people don't know where the bottom is, in terms of bad debt that's out there, not only from the subprime lending market, but also the credit card markets and the title loan markets. And all those potential bad debts are making people afraid to do ordinary business with companies that are very credible.

The Fed has taken some good steps. I think they have been innovative in trying to pump liquidity into the market. I think assisting JPMorgan Chase to purchase Bear Stearns was a sound decision, given that the alternative was probably Bear Stearns going under, which could have triggered a domino effect in the market.

But what I think we have to do is to get a floor under our housing market. And so I'm working with Chris Dodd, the chairman of the Banking Committee, to make sure that we've got a system to shore up the mortgage-lending process and make sure that people aren't losing their homes.

That will provide some assurance that there's not going to be just a bottomless pit of bad debt out there. And hopefully, banks, then, and other financial institutions will start having a little more confidence and start doing the normal business that needs to be done.

GWEN IFILL: When does it become a Fed bailout and when is a line when it becomes a taxpayer bailout?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Well, I'm not sure there's a bright line. You know, I think that if Congress is starting to appropriate money, then it's a taxpayer bailout.

And there are some innovative things that we can do to make sure that we are helping people who need help and deserve help, but recognizing that there are some people in the financial system that took enormous risks and probably need to be punished for having taken some bad decisions.

They were getting a lot of upside. They were getting huge $100 million, $200 million bonuses. And they should take some hits. And we don't want to bail them out.

On the other hand, the ordinary person who's in their home, partly because of a deceptive loan or because their wages and incomes haven't gone up over the last seven years that George Bush was in office, those folks need some relief.

And that's why I would focus on the short-term problems that we're having, but also on the long-term structural problems that we've had with our economy. We have to start providing more income, more help, more support to middle-class and working-class families. That will actually make the entire economy strong.

-------------------

Yeah, that last line sounds nice.  How to you propose to deliver this support and how quickly will it take effect?  And, how do you extend it beyond the next crisis or next election? 

sea, re: For instance, BO says he's released his tax records for the last 7 years...not true....quotes to prove that. 

they stated that it was Bill Bradley who said that, and that he shouldn't have made that statement if he didn't know what records were released.  Obama did not say that.  please try to get your facts straight.

Robby Mook sure does get around these day.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/train...

I guess Vermont knows how to produce some real dirty-trickers too.

I think DFA needs to take Robby Mook off their list of Trainers for DFA Training Academy if they expect anybody in California to ever attend or fund another training again.

---

Howard Dean-Campaign Organization, New Hampshire

Deputy Field Director Robby Mook (started April 20, 2003) Most recently worked for NYC councilwoman Eva Markowitz. Field director for the Vermont Democratic Party Coordinated Campaign in 2002. Graduate of Columbia University with a B.A. in Classics 2002. Worked for the Vermont Democratic House caucus in 2000 and the Vermont Democratic Party as a canvasser in 1998.

---

Pictures show Mooks personally trained the NV caucus volunteers. I heard they were instructed to cheat when ever and where ever possible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

Robby Mook who was state director in Nevada and Ohio for Hillary has been named state director for Indiana.

from previous thread:

audrey - I believe Obama got four-six Edwards' delegates and Obama got one delegate from Clinton. Phil probably has the real scoop.

My hubby and I have lots family and lots of friends in Indiana. I'm going to warn them to stay away as far as they can from Robby Mook.

Dan Abrams' show seems like tabloid journalism at best. I liked it when he gave his lawyerly point of view of on-going cases. He stinks at politics IMO.

Abrams show is rather tabloid after the half hour - sorta like Keith.  But the beginning of the show exposes the various lies etc of both campaigns.

Article Archives Listen to Alex Jones Contact TruthNews
Mad Bomber McCain’s Three AM Call
Kurt Nimmo
Truth News
March 17, 2008

It is another sign the American people suffer from a collective delirium, that is if we can believe a Zogby poll.

“The recent Hillary Clinton campaign advertisement asking who Americans want answering the phone in the White House when a crisis erupts at 3 a.m. has sparked a national debate about which candidate would best handle such a phone call,” writes the polling corporation. “But while the ad was designed to boost the Clinton candidacy, likely voters nationwide say they would feel more secure having Republican John McCain answering the call of a crisis, a new Zogby International telephone poll shows.”

It is not specified what this “crisis” would be, but we can take a guess. A situation that may require bombing and murder, said to be McCain’s forte. For instance, a Gulf of Tonkin event cooked up against Iran, leading to a “crisis” requiring a bombing campaign.

Of course, the average American polled by Zogby is probably unaware of the fact his team is crawling with neocons — including Eliot Cohen, Mr. World War Four, and Bill Kristol, who is fond of the Führerprinzip — and these neocons are itching to bomb Iran under the flimsiest of pretense. As well, the average American would probably be unaware of the fact neocons are liars, dissemblers, and unprincipled fabricators and any “crisis” would certainly be bogus, designed to fulfill their weltanschauung of killing Muslims, wrecking their society and culture, and generally making their lives a collective hell.

But then it hardly matters, as McCain will get nowhere near the White House and, all told, Clinton and Obama are nearly as murderous, never mind the corporate media mantra that McCain is tougher when it comes to “national security,” that is the act of killing grandmothers and toddlers in far away lands.

For the victims, it will not matter if the serial murderer on the other end of the trigger is a demented former POW, a Bilderberg ice queen, or a purported agent of “change” who is propped up by international bankers and the cold-blooded miscreant, Zbigniew Brzezinski.

The Fed has taken some good steps. I think they have been innovative in trying to pump liquidity into the market. I think assisting JPMorgan Chase to purchase Bear Stearns was a sound decision, given that the alternative was probably Bear Stearns going under, which could have triggered a domino effect in the market.

But what I think we have to do is to get a floor under our housing market. And so I'm working with Chris Dodd, the chairman of the Banking Committee, to make sure that we've got a system to shore up the mortgage-lending process and make sure that people aren't losing their homes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What part of that answer by O'Bama do you disagree with Ronald?

. Could the possibility of the two most evil people in politics, Hillary Clinton and John McCain, in the future, run for the Presidency. I thought the American people albeit, dumb downed would surely see the persona that emanated from these two possessed,corrupted souls. But, alas, here we are. The most incredulous, surreal event happened. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are going to be the nominations. This shows that either our system of voting has been taken over by the VIPERS that master over our puppet representatives and fix thing so that we have the allusion of voting. Or the American people are completely retarded.

Ronald wrote "Yeah, that last line sounds nice.  How to you propose to deliver this support and how quickly will it take effect?  And, how do you extend it beyond the next crisis or next election?"

Insightful question.  In fact, how does any one of the candidates propose to handle this crisis? My hope would be, at the very least, not to follow or ratify some policy designed by the current administration, the surest path towards disaster.   

But what I think we have to do is to get a floor under our housing market. And so I'm working with Chris Dodd

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

everyone is in agreement that things will not get better until that happens

what do you propose?

Hillary said she would freeze interest rates, is that before or after the next one point drop?

long term, we have to create a new renewable energy economy, fix health care, make college affordable like Obama said, but the war is the big drain, so who has the best answer to ending the war, has the best answer for turning the economy around

You're right, Jo.  Please remember that when someone in HC's campaign says something and s/o tries to trash her for it.

Just being fair here.

So what are we all agreeing to?  That only what they 2 say can be discussed?  That they are NOT know by the company they keep?  Or that they are?  And let's not have one standard for one and a different one for the other.

What's the truth here? 

I didn't know that the BO campaign knew about the inflammatory Wright a year ago and that he was going to announce the BO candidacy .

BTW, if any white person talked about blacks the way Wright talks about whites, that person would be called a racist.  A 20 year  relationship story with this pastor, who's also a friend, is not going away.

Let's hope his statements on race and religion tomorrow are more clear and knowledgable than what he said about Bear Stearns.  Apparently he thinks it's OK that we taxpayers foot the bill.  I believe Keith may have addressed this tonight.  Yup, bail out Bear Steans and let people lose their homes.

So the horserace is now about race and religion.

Welcome to 100 years in Iraq AND Afghanistan (and Iran and Pakistan and Syria...) 

I'm not sure why I did it but I ventured over to my dd. Lots of filth. Jerome is really loving the Obama/Wright story. I can't imagine he and Markos are feeling much kinship lately. I think I'll steer clear of my dd in the near future.

seashell - I don't like the manner in which Rev. Wright spoke - but he didn't say anything that wasn't true. Look at the context. I noticed the news clips played over and over were heavily edited.

The media is trying to make this the Dean Scream all over again. But this time I don't think it will stick. I surely hope not.

Techno

Traveler

HC did not say the words that came out of Ferraro's mouth.

BO did not say he released all of his returns. 

Even! 

And BO did not advocate an Olympic boycott, even tho s/o here tried to imply that. 

They both need to go after McCain.  Hillary's doing it from what I heard today...BO is on the defensive, mixing religion, race and politics.  He should go to the ME    IMO

I think Obama got it right about Bear Stearns, there was no appropriation, the taxpayers did not "foot the bill", the Fed provided backing, if they have to print money to make up for losses we all lose, but if they don't let it go to that by stepping in, they did the right thing

somebody lost their shorts, and deserved to, and it wasn't taxpayers (yet)

Go, Peter, a fabulous Oregonian.

Des Bishop spent a year achieving what many Irish people barely manage in 14 years:  learning Irish.  The results have been captured for a new RTE series "In the Name of the Fada."  Joining Des in The Late Late Show were Connemara born Cillian Fennel and TV Presenter Blánaid Ní Chaofaigh

You're right, Jo.  Please remember that when someone in HC's campaign says something and s/o tries to trash her for it.

Just being fair here.

first off, my point wasn't that someone in Obama's campaign said something that was inaccurate - it was that you put their mistaken words in Obama's mouth - you said "BO said"......  so don't put words in my mouth, either, sea.  I have no problem 'remembering' to be fair - you haven't seen me trash Hillary for anything others have done/said and I have not supported others who have done so.  if I have a problem with what someone connected to any campaign says, I hold them accountable for their own words, - I cast no blame on Hillary or Barack and I assign no motivations to their words - plenty of other folks seem to want to do that.  the problems I have with Hillary are all her own doing and they have nothing to do with her surrogates. 

So the horserace is now about race and religion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

no, it is about the questions Ronald raised, Democrats don't listen to Rush Limbaugh

who has the vision and leadership to change the direction of a nation with the help of the movement they are now leading

can Hillary provide more leadership, can Barack?

I was listening for some sign of Presidential leadership ahead of whatever the next crises are.  Letting the Fed rewrite its rules on the fly to prop up corrupt trillion dollar investment
banking companies doesn't inspire me.

Where was the Fed when the loans where being doled out,  made to forclose mortgages bundled, and securities traded?  It wasn't like nobody saw it coming.  Even the superficial broadcast network newscasts pointed out this wasn't going to work during the high point of the housing boom.  Harpers Magazine ran a cover story called The New Serfdom illustrated with a bent man carrying a McMansion on his back.  James Fallows in The Atlantic prophesied Katrina like trailer villages furnished for the foreclosed upon's basic shelter.

Why not draw a little rhetorical blood and remind the nation that Greenspan's Fed directed the Clinton Administration to close the deficit if it wanted lower interest rates.  The same prima donna Fed Chairman pushed rates close to zero to keep the economy going for the budget busting Bush Cheney wrecking crew.

Bill Clinton or Howard Dean would have taken Ifill's totally anticipatable, softball question and hammered way out of the park.  Leadership is seeing it coming, knowing how it got here, knowing where its headed, and knowing what to do to save the country's collective
backside.  It's about being President during a period of rapid, accelerated decline in the United States' wealth and being smart and tough enough to use what we have left to mitigate it quick. 

The Fed ain't gonna save us.   Pelosi, Reid and other Congressional Dems better put the superdelegate drama on hold and try to get something going economic wise.  W will cave
as the fire gets hotter.

So, I said before, I will take a return to Clintonomics as a start. 

If these were his best answers in a polite interview, Obama isn't ready for this.
   

"Fight McCain"

<

I have been ever since, Robert Oler stacked his chips on 'Cain's square!

Who would have ever quessed that political operatives actually have a code of ethics.

http://www.theaapc.com/

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_As...

AAPC Code of Ethics

As a member of the American Association of Political Consultants, I believe there are certain standards of practice which I must maintain. I, therefore, pledge to adhere to the following Code of Professional Ethics:

I will not indulge in any activity which would corrupt or degrade the practice of political consulting.

I will treat my colleagues and clients with respect and never intentionally injure their professional or personal reputations.

I will respect the confidence of my clients and not reveal confidential or privileged information obtained during our professional relationship.

I will use no appeal to voters which is based on racism, sexism, religious intolerance or any form of unlawful discrimination and will condemn those who use such practices. In turn, I will work for equal voting rights and privileges for all citizens.

I will refrain from false or misleading attacks on an opponent or member of his or her family and will do everything in my power to prevent others from using such tactics.

I will document accurately and fully any criticism of an opponent or his or her record.

I will be honest in my relationship with the news media and candidly answer questions when I have the authority to do so.

I will use any funds I receive from my clients, or on behalf of my clients, only for those purposes invoiced in writing.

I will not support any individual or organization which resorts to practices forbidden by this code.

DFA should print a copy of this ethic code up and send it around to their Academy Trainers before the next training. Better still a course on political campaign ethics needs to be included in their all training manuals.

" Democrats don't listen to Rush Limbaugh "

Phil wrote: 

the taxpayers did not "foot the bill", the Fed provided backing.

OK, then where is the "backing" coming from if not us?  

****************

Thanks, Jo, for that explanation. 

Vampire Weekend - Oxford Comma

...BO is on the defensive, mixing religion, race and politics. 

You've been listening to Rush too much and have the two confused!

Dublin Boys Are Back In Town

My responses to these posts:

Has anyone studied the effect of a 6.0 earthquake on a nuclear power plant?  
Not me.

If you have been following Keith Olbermann lately, you have to wonder which side of the aisle he really is on -- the right or the left.
As a "newspaper" man he is on neither side.

there's lots of yap about an imminent endorsement of Clinton by John Edwards - if this comes to pass I will absolutely never, ever, EVER believe another word the man says.
John Edwards, who?

The question of the day:
Who really has the best chance of beating McCain?  
Obama

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Well, obviously, there are some short-term steps that we have to take. And what we have is a crisis of confidence in the credit markets, partly because people don't know where the bottom is, in terms of bad debt that's out there, not only from the subprime lending market, but also the credit card markets and the title loan markets. And all those potential bad debts are making people afraid to do ordinary business with companies that are very credible
Isn't that the truth?

So, I said before, I will take a return to Clintonomics as a start. 
The Bridge to the 21. century?

Boston is back.  Sigh o nar a, De' troit.

Bear Stearns. Apparently he thinks it's OK that we taxpayers foot the bill.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Somehow, I don't think you'd like the consequences of NOT having supported Bear Stearns, lol!

To trip is but to fall.

Phil, BO is now making this about race and religion or he wouldn't be speaking about it tomorrow.  Are you saying it's a defensive speech?  You mean he and his crew hadn't a clue that this would eventually come up?

mary

The things Wright said were racist and there's no denying that.  There's a lot of truth in what he says, but it's still racist.  I don't dislike him for his words but I do think BO should distance himself competely from both the pastor and the church...for the sake of the party and the country.  But what do I know?

Who is ready and able to lead in this social, economic and foreign policy crisis?  Who has the experience to know what to do? Who can beat McCain?  Who's been thru major crisis before?

Who's more likely to take us into more war, a man or a  woman?  It's a good question, not answerable simply by saying "Obama."  Women, in gen'l, do not like sending children off to die. How many times have many here said that we need more women in power to help end wars and suffering?

For me it's coming down to, Who will not commit troops easily and who can beat McC? And who has the experience and knowlege to keep this country from going completely under?  Glub glub.

Join the army!  It's romantic in Afghanistan.

Why aren't they impeaching this madman? 

happy St Patties

Bear Stearns. Apparently he thinks it's OK that we taxpayers foot the bill.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Somehow, I don't think you'd like the consequences of NOT having supported Bear Stearns, lol!

Oh, what a pain. The little man actually has to pay for his transgressions. And everyone else's.

Another excuse to run up the the deficit. "If we don't go deeper into debts we will collapse the whole system."

Good grief, Karen, get a grip.  I've never listened to Rush.

I'll say bye for now since you all are about to pile on me again.

Get the Obamastars outta your eyes! 

So what are we all agreeing to?

My opinon is that we need to change the present course.

 Who is more likely to represent and possible implement that change?
Well, I won't name anyone because I'm not in the promotion business.

Obamastars

It really sucks when one is accused to be a star. But what's worse is if you are somebody's else's star.

Anybody who supports or likes Obama in some way is now put down because they are followers.

Neil Young - “Campaigner” from Decade (1977)

SOUL

Sea, please: no advice.

 I admire Barack for staying with his church despite having disagreements with his minister.

If you were having disagreements with your family; you wouldn't walk away from them to seek another family.

Hey, can I let off some steam?

This blog software or is it the operators, suck!

It's just because of you fellow bloggers that I somehow tolerate this incompetence.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get that emotional~

Revolution Blues

I thought well of what Barack said about Rev Wright than what the Republican machine said about 'im.

What, are you a Repug shill, sea?

Repeat?

I have gas, so please excuse me.

well of s/be better for

Well, the pundits are all aflutter over Obama's speech. *Will it save his POTUS bid?* *will it save his career?* Good grief - such drama. He will hit it out of the park. He's writing it himself. No one can give a better speech (at least in my generation). Okay, I love that *What I Want to Know* speech. ;-) This speech will be from his heart.

Go get 'em O'bama.

ps - I never did leave the Catholic church after all the pedophile cases.

ps - I never did leave the Catholic church after all the pedophile cases

<

Niether did I, but I say that I "was born Catholic, but am nolonger Christian.  I love Jesus, but never knew Christ: love Jesus, but have problem with man"

ps - I never did leave the Catholic church after all the pedophile cases.

You mean you are a true believer?

new thread.

Who would have ever quessed

Lol!

but I say that I "was born Catholic, but am nolonger Christian.  I love Jesus, but never knew Christ: love Jesus,

Wow.
Don't mind me. You love Jesus but you never knew Christ ?

You love somebody you don't know?

 Does that mean you love the unknown?

Cool.

Night.