Just checked out the trashcan--nothing yet. Maybe this post will kick things off.

Obama has posted a spirited, condescending, unapologetic defense of his FISA position:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/my-position-on-fisa_b_110789.html

To me, it is utterly unpersuasive, does not address the issue that the existing FISA legislation is more than adequate, continues to parrot Repug talking points, and offers the lame fig leaf that he will "work to remove immunity"

I predict it will be completely ineffective in stemming the tidal wave, the blizzard, the avalanche of criticism and cutoffs of donations by supporters who are not into blind acceptance of stupid decisions.

It would appear that Obama has shifted from his early and admirable attack mode to the John Kerry style of being on defence (FISA, Iraq withdrawal, faith-based nonsense, etc.)

This does not bode well...............

Obama must do the necessary work of bringing most of them on board, hence the shift, but it is indeed painful to watch how far to the right he thinks he needs to go.

Where's all the posters who were polled that wanted to blog to stay on topic?

HJ...I'm hoping that Obama doesn't loose his base with his shift to the center...I'm also hoping he'll take a sharp left turn once in the WH, either by choice or by force of all those getting engaged in the process. Of those that I talk to, most are more fed up with what has happened to America in the last seven years than are excited about BO. I think he's making a big mistake but what do I know...I'm just a regular working guy who talks to lots of other regular working people.

Off to enjoy the festivities today...happy 4th everyone.

waiting for the parade to start is always one of the best times to have a conversation with them.

It is unbelievable to me that Charles took a post about that fight from Jim Dean featuring Russ Feingold off the front page and put it in a trash bin that kicks you clear out if you post. Trashing his own current mission right now. This is the only political fight on the front burner. DFA has taken a stand, and Charles trashes it. unbelievable

How he keeps his job after Jim finds out will be a mystery.

Since i hardly ever drink water, if I can help it, the water-cooler idea leaves me unimpressed.  Also, I think it's rude to talk while eating or drinking and to walk around with either in one's hand.   The American obsession with drinking water has always been perceived as peculiar by people who are used to boiling their water for health.

The water fountains in the schools were always a nuissance, even when they weren't objectivications of segregation.  That they have now been largely removed because the pipes were lead and contaminated the water is not surprising.  That DFA staff want to replace them with water coolers is so nineteen fifties.

It's my sense that DFA have no concept of how people use BFA for their home page, for example, and how annoying it is to have to go searching for where the action is.  Most entities with a presence on the web would give their eye teeth for a large number of people using their site as their home page.  That lots of DFAers do it, is evidenced by the fact that lots of people pop in and leave a comment when they do a check and find something particularly interesting and then we never hear from them for months.

I have one son who lives in Florida and reads Hannah regularly.  I don't permit comments there. Three or four times a year he'll call with some observation or other he wants to share and sometimes he emails a link to another web site he thinks i should see.  We are definitely on the same wave length and don't need to be in contact on a daily or weekly basis to maintain that connection.  Ditto for BFA.

Danny and Charles seem to be the kind of folk who need to call home on a regular schedule.  It's my sense that's only necessary for people who don't have much in common with the people they call.  Feel free to disagree--anyone............

Since I don't have a left mouse or pad, it's really cumbersome to post, so I won't be doing much.  Daughter suggests perhaps the keypad needs to be vacuumed.  I'm a little reluctant lest some dirt get stuck in an even more debilitating spot.

You don't want to have a smaller number of supporters than your opponent. Nobody really remarks on the Democratic presence unless it is meager, or really large so pump it up.I urge you to spend the next couple of days walking in one, don't just watch. (and if you are running remember next year right after Halloween is the best time to buy the candy to throw to the kids lol). kids like those stickers too and you get the pleasure of seeing them the rest of the celebration anywhere you look and there is always room for a person or two on either side of the candidate helping with the stickering

my son and I are doing three and we get the added bonus of seeing the Obama Llama in action

happy holiday patriots

just wanted to mention again, in case you missed it, that the coverage of Obama's faith speech was quite extensive in the small (16 pages) local paper we found in the middle of nowhere in Antonito, Colorado.  The way I see it is that to the extent human behavior has to be modified to be socially acceptable and supportive, the establishments of religion have a useful role to play.  It just shouldn't be combined with the physically coercive powers we delegate to the agents of government.  That's why they need to be kept separate, but not necessarily excluded.  (there is a difference between separation and segregation, despite the fact that the Supreme Court has determined that to keep people appart by force makes them fundamentally unequal--a truth that applies to recent immigrants who aren't citizens, as well.  It's the ability to use force which puts the agents of government under restrictions which ordinary people and eleemosynary institutions don't labor under.  The agents of government are precluded from using religious institutions as enforcers and vise versa.

The problem with what the Bushes arose from the fact that it was their intent to make establishments of religion part of the coercive regimen.  Since the suborning of the private for-profit corporations wasn't achieving all the subjugation of the population that was wanted, they hit on the non-profit sector to do their dirty work.  This agenda has now become apparent to the non-profits and faith-based sector and that's why they are retreating in droves.  They have come to realize that what was expected was that they sell their birth-right (their independence) for a mess of porridge.

To be on message for a moment--it probably strikes some Iraqis as ironic that the bombs bursting in air give proof that their country is still there, as well.  If the U.S. had won, the bombs would have fallen silent a long time ago.

As I've opined before, the issue in FISA is bigger than the interdiction of domestic communications.  It's whether the whole strategy of waging war in cyberspace (targeting an "enemy's" communications networks for destruction) is valid.  We saw overt evidence of this strategy in the destruction of Iraq's "command and control structures" evidenced by the destruction of power generating stations and transmission lines, as well as the destruction of electronic facilities in Bosnia.  These were examples of the use of blunt or bruit force.  "Taking out" transmission nodes and satellite installations is a more surgically precise exercise, but the terraine has to be mapped.  That's what the suborning of the telecom facilities was supposed to accomplish.

There is a long tradition of enemies destroying the libraries of their opponents.  The accumulations of human wisdom and knowledge haven't been "lost" in history.  They were destroyed by vandals who wanted to return their opponents to the "stone age" and make them easier to control. 

One could even argue that the destruction of the public system of education has been motivated by a desire to subjugate the population--the equivalent of "barefoot and pregnant" for a whole population whose only use is to be controlled.

Morning Folks,

Looks like the blog is open this morning.  Some sunshine after the authoritarian declarations of Charles last night.  Reminded me of Charles on MASH.

Listened to the Declaration of Independence on NPR and was struck by how our George has violated so many of the principles stated, not only here, but also in Iraq and around the world.

I thought of the words of dedicating life, honor, and fortunes for the good of the Republic, and it made me sadder than ever how far we've fallen, how Eisenhower warned of the collusion between the military and industry, and we are seeing it.

It seemed to me that we should be rising up in revolution, but muskets and camouflage are not the ways to do it.  The blog allowed for free speech, and we gathered and spoke freely.  It has been a flame of light and fire, and I have learned from you all and re-examined some of my own ideas and beliefs.  There's also been a kind of extrasensory perception, or whatever we might call it, a stimulation and response to ideas and perceptions that at times seemed extraordinary, a synchronicity that reflected a consciousness more than just literal.

Now, and it hasn't been made clear in any way, the blog is going to change.  The postings will be censored, relegated to a side category, and then deleted after three hours.  Is this being done for money?  Is this being done for the purpose of eventually getting rid of the blog altogether? The statement that a majority voted for this is patently false. When Howard Dean asked us to vote on whether or not he should take public funding, there was an actual vote.  There has been no vote.

But, we go on.  Our lives have been wonderful by comparison to former generations and to many peoples around the world. We've had so much in the way of living, opportunities, resources, safety, health, and almost anything humans can hope for.  How do we then continute to contribute in the ways we can in our society? 

Happy Fourth Folks.

I'm going camping today. What are you all doing?

Those of us who were Deaniacs remember that a theme of the campaign was that we were responsible for building and maintaining "The Great American Conversation."  It all tied together: "In your hands, not mine, lies the future of this nation," the Doc would tell us, and we'd believe it, and go forward.  We generated posters, bumper stickers, software, campaign tools. in a way that had never been done before.

In those days, the blog was the center of a lot of these activities.  You know what the first "DFA training" was?  It was when I suggested Meetup groups kick in $20 each and send representatives to the 21st Century Democrats training in DC, and that those representatives bring the information back to their groups and pass them on.  We had jc's and demetrius' and others art - better than what the "pros" were putting out, all shared here, generated from ideas begin here, and refined through conversation.

Now we are told "The Great American Conversation" is to be shunted off the "the watercooler."  We need to be more serious and issue oriented.  Our comments need to relate to the main post.  This is a mistake as well as being a betrayal of the history and heritage of this blog.

Synergy happens when seemingly unrelated actions interact in unexpected ways.  This can only happen when there is a critical mass of activities and those activities are unfocused.  This is the power of what has become a buzzword, but is still valid, "outside the box" thinking.  Follow down the normal trail and there is no solution.  Step off the trail, and there's no telling what you will find.  Bread mold may become penacillin.

BFA will not become stronger by being more like Kos.  BFA will become stronger by promoting what it is.  BFA will become stronger when DFA HQ uses it like Dean for America did -- as a window into DFA operations, a place to discuss future activities, plan and synergize, and build community.  There have been folks who have left, but not because of the conversational tone.  Generally, it's been because of specific posters and postings.  That can be controlled now with the rating system.  Go out and actively invite perople back.  Open the shutters between HQ and the blog again and make this the organizational and creative tool it was during the campaign.

We don't need another Kos.  We have one already.

Charles on MASH.  Who do you think you are?  Most of us have paid to join DFA, have contributed, have been involved for yesrs.  Yet, you and others have made a decision to kill the blog, and then you have the nerve to preach that it will be the same if we just do what we are t old.

Where do you get off?  You also lied and said the majority wanted this.  There are over 65,000 mebmers according to the website.  You polled 65,000 members? Right.  I don't recall being given a vote, nor my husband, nor anyone who has posted lately.

So, has the website been sold?  Is that it, and the new corporate managers want to make it into a Daily KOS?  What's going on?  Neither you, nor Danny, nor Jim Dean, nor anyone has been forthright.

Well, okay, but you've betrayed the very principles that Howard Dean stood for, power from the grassroots, the people as participants.

Shame on you.  I'm shaking my teacherly finger at you, you pompous ass. By the way, I really hate name calling, but there is a time for it.

Mordechai Vanunu is an Israeli who was responsible for our first knowledge that the Israelis had nukes. For 'outing' Israel, he was lured by a modern Mata Hari out of Britain to another place where he could be arrested and prosecuted.  He spent many years in prison and in solitary confinement.  Today he seeks asylum out of Israel, but he can't get out and the Israelis oppress him (Annilow's 'cliff notes' on the Wiki article which I will now link):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

Note to self:  quit using parens - you never remember to close them.

Also from CSPAN this morning:

An author and scholer named Felzenberg who has written a book on the Presidents and how they rate, based on 6 criteria he has based loosely on how he grades students.  The 6 are:  character, vision, competence, foreign policy, economic policy, human rights, and legacy (from B&N website which I will link in a moment).  He rates people about how you would expect - Lincoln first, Washington a close second and the Roosevelts in the top tier.  He puts Kennedy at the top of the second tier.  He puts Clinton at about the middle of the middle.  He kind of danced around Bush -- I think he thinks it's too soon to say.  His most interesting comments were about Herbert Hoover.  He said Hoover was the Bill Gates of his day.  That contrary to popular opinion that Jimmy Carter is the greatest ex-president, that in fact Hoover was -- that he was a great philanthropist.

http://tinyurl.com/6avqru

AND ONE MORE THING

An advantage to the Back of the Bus is you don't have to be paranoid about new threads -- just keep an eye on the time :~)

...just as you've provided no evidence of 'many complaints' about the blog, you've provided no evidence of how you chose the people who got scholarships to Netroots Nation.  Howard would be proud no?

Charles said if we keep thinking the water cooler is a septic tank, it will become one.    Here's an idea,   let's keep thinking the staff is competent, communicative, and cooperative and they will become so.   They have the power to make that happen.

Excellent post Pat and Rich.

Another comment on the mechanics.

Why do I keep getting shunted back to the homepage after each post on this verdamte water cooler?

I would definitely like to see a blog post asking BFA members whether they approve of the "Water-cooler" concept.

I predict you'll be inundated with negative responses.

And just look at the current thread. It's like watching grass grow, but not as exciting.

We'll make the water cooler the main blog.  It's a dictatorship. Just put the message out to newcomers once in a while to let them know.  HQ will get their act together sooner or later.

And who knows, once in a while there may be a main theme worth posting about. 

every time we post?  It doesn't seem to reload the water cooler when I post?  I have to do another click on the pull down menu to see the post

I linked to this on the main blog post.  Eugene Robinson's piece *A Special Brand of Patriotism*

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR2008070302450.html

Hope everyone has a happy and safe 4th of July.  We have friends visiting so we'll be busy.  Going for a hike so we can eat a lot later.  LOL

is that the water cooler seems to finish loading a little faster than the main blog page, and so far, I have always gotten my enhancements.

Our strict, chemical-laden diet

On my way to a golf tournament in Sun Valley, Idaho, I passed mile after mile of potato fields and thought about a book, "The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan.

let's see if this works.  Nope but it's the new Fiore.

http://www.markfiore.com/