Home » The Watercooler for 07/04/08 12:00 PM
The Watercooler for 07/04/08 12:00 PM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
Watercooler resets everyday at 1am, 9am and 5pm. Past threads can be found in the Watercooler Archive
He must have the right position (LOL)
- OTOH - I think the exception, although politically and practically indispensable, de facto
By Fred from Oregon on Jul 4, 2008 12:39 PM EDTIs really redundant, de jure, since the law has always been pretty clear long before Roe v Wade, that physician's responsibility to save the mother supercedes the fetus' right to life.
But the accusation of disregarding the mother's life in lieu of ideological concerns is too serious to do away with the "health of the mother" exception.
The marathon debate has always been how to define that exception, with the activist pro-legal-abortion ("pro-choice") side wanting it to be broad, and the ban-abortion ("pro-life") side wanting it to be a life-or-death circumstance.
I think Obama is wording it better than any politician has ever done before. Most politicians just giving a knee-jerk cliche response, one way or the other.
Medical intervention to stop it, retard it, or hurry it along is, if performed in accordance with medical training, not appropriate to prohibit legislatively. Medical care is ipso facto beneficial. To prohibit it legislatively is to turn a positive into a negative. That is not the function of the law.
On the other hand, every male has to recognize a partisan interest in matters of procreation for the simple reason that their participation in the process is so minimal. In other words, they want to interfere in something that's none of their business.
I think therse's a new waterboarding thread, and i have firsties, but I'm not sure at all. Jeez/
Well, I guess this is itl. I have no idea where the old WB thread is. &^^%$#@
OH GOOD GRIEF. bETWEEN THIS **&^% pc AND THIS CRAZY wb BLOG, i CAN'T COPY AND PASTE AND i HAVEN'T A CLUE WHY THIS
OH GOOD GRIEF. bETWEEN THIS **&^% pc AND THIS CRAZY wb BLOG, i CAN'T COPY AND PASTE AND i HAVEN'T A CLUE WHY THIS IS
OH GOOD GRIEF. bETWEEN THIS **&^% pc AND THIS CRAZY wb BLOG, i CAN'T COPY AND PASTE AND i HAVEN'T A CLUE WHY THIS IS ALL BOLD AND
OH GOOD GRIEF. bETWEEN THIS **&^% pc AND THIS CRAZY wb BLOG, i CAN'T COPY AND PASTE AND i HAVEN'T A CLUE WHY THIS IS ALL BOLD AND BLUE AND
I posted that there's a new WB thread right at this spot and it disappeared.
This is the third time I've announced a new thread and I get error ksgs.
Danny, in all due respect, either fix this piece of c*** or get rid of it
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield
One good thing about the watercooler is at least I get a toolbar.
Oh I see. HQ moves WB posts to new threads and main posts to the WB thread. How quaint. Total contol,is that it, HQ?
I'm close behin lindab..............totally disgusted with this.
Bush's Dollar Drop Maps Loss of US Clout at Final G-8 Summit
http://www.truthout.org/article/bushs-dollar-drop-maps-loss-us-clout-final-g-8-summit
James G. Neuger reports for Bloomberg News, "When President George W. Bush went to his first Group of Eight summit in 2001, a dominant issue was the dollar - the strong dollar, that is.... On the eve of Bush's last G-8 appearance, the dollar's gyrations are again in the crossfire. This time, it is a weak currency, upended by slumping growth, a housing recession and record gas prices, that is gnawing away at the world economy."
US, Poland Agree on Outlined Deal for Missile Bases
http://www.truthout.org/article/us-poland-agree-outlined-deal-missile-bases
Anne Gearan, for The Associated Press: "The United States and Poland have tentatively agreed to base America
I either get thrown off, access denied, get sent back to the main DFA page or have to start over finding the water cooler. This is cumbersome not to even be able to get back to this thread without jumping hurdles.
Bye
Hey gang. It's DearPru from Ohio. Long time.
Hey Cherie -- Happy Fourth of July...
From AP
Analysis: Obama's shifts to center give GOP ammo
Obama's problem on Iraq isn't that he is changing his position drastically, because he isn't.
Obama has always said his promise to end the war would require consultations with military commanders and, possibly, flexibility. This, in fact, is the only reasonable stance for a U.S. commander in chief to take.
His problem is that his change in emphasis to flexibility from a hard-nosed end-the-war stance — including his recent position that withdrawing combat troops could take as long as 16 months — will now be heard loud and clear by an anti-war camp that may have ignored it before. So he could face a double-whammy in their feelings of betrayal and other voters' belief in the Republican charge that he is craven.
Happy 4th of JulyBy Charles Chamberlain on Jul 4, 2008 9:02 AM
"I'm going camping today. What are you all doing?"
Looking through the Harper's archive to re-read this Lewis Lapham's Notebook.
Traditionally, The 4th of July and Thanksgiving have been my favorite holidays.NOTEBOOK Page 9
Lewis Lapham
Our politicians flee from ambiguity almost as hurriedly as they shun dissent,
but should it occur to them to stage a revival of Machiavelli's political
theory,<big>
<big>they might begin with the observation that America owes its wealth and power to the resources of the human intellect,</big></big>
not to the favor of God's will. Conceived as the freedom
from priests as well as kings, the republic was founded on the capacity
of its citizens to think and speak without cant, the success of the joint venture
dependent upon the extent to which we try to tell each other the truth.
World Order dressed up in the pretensions of a spiritual project that regards
the asking of too many questions as both unpatriotic and impious.
By confusing the glory of money with the spirit of libertv, our wastrel
governments in.Washington over the last fifty years have been notably
cheeseburgers; the blessings that we cannot attribute directly to God
we assign to the Holy Ghost embodied in the miracle of the world's capi-
tal markets. Unfortunately, and contrary to the upheat messages from the
sponsors, neither God nor His market can defend a city, write a new
equation, commit an act of the 'moral or political imagination.
. . .
When considering a policy or an alliance, we might learn to ask better
questions of our newfound friend in the handsome military uniform-not
"Are you with us or against us?" but<big>
<big>"In what circumstances do we find those
of your people not living in the palace?" .</big></big>
Do they walk on two feet in the manner of human beings, or do they crouch
on their hindquarters like humiliated dogs? The distinction might prompt
the makers of American foreign policy to weigh the worth of a nation's laws
more heavily in the balance than an Arab sheikh's gift of an emerald to the
wife of an oil-company president. The more people in the world who become
fully human, the fewer the hostages to fortune and the less seductive
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gGxdWr/commentary
| By Amanda Scott - Jul 3rd, 2008 at 11:32 pm EDT |
Thank you to all the supporters who have declared their independence from a broken system. Change begins from the bottom up, and this is the one campaign that is supported by the people, for the people.
...
Who can discuss issues without taking things personally, or having ones' views censored.
http://howardempowered.blogspot.com/
If you go there, keep it real but keep it respectful please
You can post main threads of interest there, too
FOCUS: Kathy Kelly | Istiklal
http://www.truthout.org/article/istiklal
Kathy Kelly, for Truthout: "The city of Amman, Jordan, is awash with numerous colorful signs that proclaim independence, 'Istiklal.' The word is found on posters and placards in store windows. It names a major thoroughfare, a hospital and a shopping center. Appreciation for independence is palpable, and this could be said for numerous cities and towns throughout the region, including Iraq, where past struggles for independence are commemorated by naming buildings and streets 'Istiklal.' It reflects the love of independence and the longing for it. But independence is elusive in a region suffering multiple wars and occupations. Particularly in Iraq, it's hard to imagine an independent society growing up amid the violent wreckage of economic sanctions, US bombardment and staggering corruption."
...and the rockets red bloody glare..........
happy 4th everyone.
I'm going to a private birthday party here in Buenos Aires.
**********************
What Anni posted about BO's stance change on the war....this is where he begins to lose the youth vote and possibly the election, should they stay home. If he loses the young and the restless (Indies) the repugs will likely win by hook or crook.
this is not good, Folks. He's my default vote, but it just doesn't look good. How do the dems expect to win without the mass of young people?
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By seashell on Jul 4, 2008 12:08 PM EDTDean is first. And I don't know if this post ever showed up anywhere.
"In an interview this week with "Relevant," a Christian magazine, Obama said prohibitions on late-term abortions must contain "a strict, well defined exception for the health of the mother."
Obama then added: "Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term.""
"Last year, after the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on late-term abortions, Obama said he "strongly disagreed" with the ruling because it "dramatically departs form previous precedents
"The official position of NARAL Pro-Choice America, the abortion rights group that endorsed Obama in May, states: "A health exception must also account for the mental health problems that may occur in pregnancy. Severe fetal anomalies, for example, can exact a tremendous emotional toll on a pregnant woman and her family.""
"David N. O'Steen, the executive director of National Right to Life, said Obama's remarks to the magazine "are either quite disingenuous or they reflect that Obama does not know what he is talking about."
"You cannot believe that abortion should not be allowed for mental health reasons and support Roe v Wade," O'Steen said."
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/7/3/20917/25581