Home » The Watercooler for 08/30/08 9:00 AM
The Watercooler for 08/30/08 9:00 AM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
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I marched in the 1952 Labour Day parade in Detroit (with the Chatham [ON] Police Boys Band)--then stood in awe as Adlai Stevenson delivered his address. I remember thinking at the time "How can this man lose?"
...it's an interview w/ a reporter from Anchorage -- his take on Palin...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/08/29/DI2008082902052.html
I found it edifying.
I'm having trouble not liking her I must admit -- her positions on some things are atrocious. There's something perhaps in this transcript about AK Fish and Game pulling out some wolf cubs and shooting them. I think McCain picked his Brian Schweitzer -- at least personality wise -- Brian of course is my candidate for 2016...
by fakeconsultant and you will quickly find yourself seeing the awful side of this VP choice.
There is truly nothing to like about her!
Unless you're a racist gun totin', homophobic, global-warming denying, anti-abortion, creationist.
I try to avoid all but the W/C Joan -- I agree with you on the issues about Palin...but I think she's gutsy, approaches life with gusto, I just like her -- sorry :~) One thing that didn't set right w/ me was the story about how she broke water in TX but took 11 hour plane ride so her last baby would be born in AK -- somehow that doesn't seem best for her or the baby -- but maybe since she's the Gov she was attended by an MD, etc. during the flight...
- Also from JudyforDean at HEP - guy fro Guardian UK calls Palin an 'insane choice'...
By Annilow on Aug 30, 2008 10:35 AM EDTlink to short video of Tomasky, Guardian UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/aug/30/uselections2008.johnmccain
has a great diary up over at Daily Kos. Please recommend it up.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/9022/76502/707/579994
I'm actually quite insulted that McCain chose Palin. It's not so much the inexperience as it is she is wholly unqualified and intellectually incurious. A moose-burger eating version of GWB only more extreme. Jeezus.
"A moose-burger eating version of GWB only more extreme."
Yes, a female George Bush, that's exactly right. I could not have come up with a more accurate description.
"I'm having trouble not liking [Palin] I must admit"
I have the opposite problem. I am appalled that clear thinking people like you give this hopelessly obtuse selection an undeserved pass. I have been regaled since yesterday with news media reports about Palin's children, her hobbies, her looks, and her political ideology straight out of the early 20th century. All of this vapid discussion has been accompanied by wild acclaim from right wing activists for the pick and, worse yet, opinions about how this tightens the race.
As to her administrative competence, her world views, her intellectual prowess, her mastery of foreign policy issues, or any other qualification that I would frankly view as requisite for the duties associated with a president and commander in chief, nothing. Crickets (continued).
This shift to simple-minded, flaccid media triviality for purposes of electing heads of state, as if the title was awarded to the winner of a reality TV show, is shocking and sinsiter. Sentiments like yours indicate to me that the party and Americans in general could be in big trouble. We've really lost our way, and you would have thought that we would have learned more from the past eight years of abysmal, made for TV politics.
...and this blog continues on its abysmal run toward not being able to accept the slightest waver from the Company Point of View. All I'm saying is I would like to know her better - I like her personality -- I said above I thought her views and policies were abysmal -- guess you missed that part? As a sometime 'thinking person' I am capable of separating my emotional choices from my mental ones. I don't hate all Republicans -- many of my family members are Republicans. I don't agree with them, I have no intention of voting for McCain b/c I am drawn to Palin. Your (and the Dems) real problem isn't me at all -- it's those other Americans out there who ARE going to vote Repug b/c THEY like her -- we are a personality driven nation -- we care about how people look -- we are shallow thinkers in many ways. I think the choice of Palin was downright brilliant and frankly for those reasons scares the hell out of me.
When you say unacceptance of any wavering "from the Company Point of View" are you suggesting we all agree with you for the sake of agreeing instead of taking issue with your view if we don't? I mean, if it's unimportant to you, I'll ignore yours or any person's point of view hereafter for purposes of discussion.
Just as a reminder or whatever, the dialogue available from a blog helps or can help to expose two sides of an issue, clarify or illuminate otherwise opaque elements of an issue, and even pursuade a person to adopt a different position instead of a former one.
I don't hate all Republicans, either, and it would be a gross misreading of anything I said to think otherwise. Of course the choice of Palin is brilliant. Look how many people are willing to even discuss her as a worthwhile choice for vice president.
I don't think anything of her personailty. That must be my problem since by coming here, I'm to understand that Ms. Congeniality's great personality is the Company Point of View from which I'm apparently not to waver.
Not according to the Breaking news that the McCain campaign is heading to Alaska to investigate *Troopergate* or are they involving themselves in the investigation? Unbelievable. Great judgment, McCain.
Well put, Annilow.
My husband made the comment that a lot of the social conservatives will be drawn to Palin because she shares their extreme views and they'll think she's cute and different.
I do believe that most women who supported Hillary won't turn out for Palin on the issues alone. I think Palin is a token choice by McCain. But I also think it was a very irresponsible choice for the country. Country first? Hmmm.
in a POTUS is apparently someone who is anti abortion, anti gay, pro gun and crazy about creationism. So to hell with national security, foreign policy, grasp of economic affairs.
My rightwing brother in law just proclaimed *I'd vote for her [Palin] President*. Sadly, it appears that this country has become one big joke of a reality show.
That he's desperate!!!!!!!!! Finally, a little balance.
That fact that a Democrat, or even an Independent and most Republicans, is "drawn" to Palin for whatever reason is frankly quite shocking to me.
There are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of hard-working and very successful women in American in all walks of business and life. But these women are not running for VP in order to have an opportunity to continue the destruction of this country alongside a man who would do the same if not worse.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion that is what it is and will always be. If certain people seek to destroy me or my country, I cannot be drawn to anything they are or stand for.
I wonder how Kay Bailey Hutchison, Olympia Snowe and others are feeling right now. Not to mention Mittens Romney and Tim Pawlenty.
Romney and Pawlenty were both furious about it. Probably that's a common opinion though most will not give a hint of dissatisfaction.
"I don't know too much about her, but perhaps that's the good news," Hutchison said.
will hit the Gulf coast early in the next week. Everyone there needs to get out of the way now and do it soon. Stay safe!
~~~~~~~~
I wonder if the Dobson people, who obviously believe in the effect of prayer, those who prayed for it to rain on the Obama acceptance speech, could be wondering if those ugly prayers are now resulting in an adverse punishing effect on -their own convention. Just a thought.
The Superdome will be locked up, no shelters, and only 700 busses to evacuate all in N.O. without transportation. Police with bull horns will drive up and down streets alerting people. Keep safe everyone.
There is still no system for getting elderly and disabled people to the inadequate number of busses. Thanks to Bush/McSame, they're still on their own.
PUMA stands for Party Unity My Ass. Local DFA members have seen many instances
of so-called Hillary supporters now doing TV interviews encouraging
disgruntled Hillary supporters to support McCain.
For more info about PUMAs, check out:
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/monday-puma-power/
One of their goals to have members disassociate themselves from the Democratic party.
I'm suggesting that we contact Hillary to demand that she
denounce these efforts by her supporters.
Contact Hillary at her campaign website:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/help/contact/
Contact Hillary at the Senate website:
http://clinton.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm?subj=issue
It was nice to see Debbie Wasserman-Schultz quickly take up the cause to support Obama, after Hillary bowed out. She was a nasty opponent of Obama in her support of Hillary.
She and our illustrious Sen. Nelson will be speaking at our DEC Claude Pepper Dinner event next weekend -- two of the three reasons I and other half will not be attending the event.
Dobson and his ilk are one the main reasons I left the Rep. party to begin with. Well, and that governor from Vermont. ;-)
To think that these nuts are so ecstatic about the hockey mom from Alaska as a potential President (if something happened to McCain) shows the lunacy of this group.
I am so fed up with it all. Obama MUST be elected.
A life long Repub. called in to C-Span this morning with some heartening comments. He's voting for Obama, and is sick of the emotional issues. He said that if you don't like abortions, then don't have one, and if you don't like homosexuals then don't be one. (I'll add one here, if you know someone who won't vote for Obama because of his race, tell them to vote for his white half). These issues never created jobs or put dinner on the table. Some real straight talk.
if you know someone who won't vote for Obama because of his race, tell them to vote for his white half
LOL My hubby has been using that as well. It leaves them w/o a reply and, just maybe, food for thought.
Dear Joan,
On Wednesday, oil billionaire T.Boone Pickens, Center for American Progress head John Podesta, and I sat down with bloggers at the Democratic National Convention to discuss our energy future. Pickens, who believes the Bush Administration is wildly exaggerating how much oil there is to be found off-shore and in Alaska, discussed his "Pickens Plan" -- a two-pronged plan he details in a massive million dollar advertising buy running nationally now.
In the ad, Pickens says the current debate over drilling "misses the point." I concur. The current political emphasis on whether or not to open up more of the coastline to drilling is a distraction, a Karl Rove-style "head fake."
And while the Sierra Club doesn't agree with Pickens on everything -- we do agree with the elements of his plan, which includes a huge increase in the investment and production of wind power, and giving consumers the choice to replace foreign oil with American natural gas for cars and trucks, in the period while we wait for all-electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles.
According to Pickens, " It's cleaner. It's cheaper. It's abundant and it's ours...and it buys us the one thing money can't buy -- time to develop the renewable fuels that will break our dependence on foreign oil."
When an oilman and environmentalists agree -- you know the momentum for real change is building.
Help us add to that momentum.
Will you send a letter to the editor of your local newspaper identifying yourself as a Sierra Club member or supporter and amplifying the message of clean energy? Click here to tell us that you are submitting a letter, and for some example letters.
Sincerely,
Carl Pope
Executive Director
as a Governor what does that say about Obama as a Senator. Actually, Palin is more qualified than the boy's she's running against.
Name her qualifications.
boy's indicates a contraction or possession -- what do you mean here. Obama was head of the Harvard Law Review and taught consititutional law. He's a Senator and accustomed to dealing with national issues. Palin's point of view has been from a single state - one that is physically distant from the rest and one with issues different from most states. She does have a degree but no graduate degree. Obama spent many years in the IL state house in addition to the Senate. Palin has run her State a few months and some town with 10K people. I don't see any comparison frankly. Why don't you go play on your own blog?
Hard not to imagine she would be better than Bush. Republican Presidents are all just front men anyway while the ideologues run the Departments, the Generals run the wars, and the front man covers while the treasury is looted.
old men fighting the last war and single issue women (again as a front for looting the treasury)
Obama pick an old man as his running mate? You missed my point...a Governor trumps a Senator. She has executive eperience but the boy's don't.
Boy's...??? Looks like we have a stray Puma Palin. This breed destined to become extinct.
Marty....however, when you're looking at experience, you must put it into perspective.
Alaska's population is smaller than the county I live in, therefore, our county executive has more executive experience and trust me, no one would ever suggest she would make a good VP.
Now i'm more confused. You are going to call some "boy's" who have some old men?
The Goper Ticket is so lame out of the gate, I still can't imagine Cheney willingly surrendering his office, or his sock puppet in chief, over something as quaint as an election...
- I want to see a convention fight from Ron Paul's delegates.
By Phil Specht on Aug 30, 2008 2:20 PM EDTshould be fun since not even GOP delegates have to accept a proposed nomination for VP
I'm loving it.
and the media played up our tension with the Clintons, while the GOP Convention threatens to explode
the old dude himself probably put his nomination at risk
Hat Tip Daily Kos:
An editorial in the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner:
She has never publicly demonstrated the kind of interest, much less expertise, in federal issues and foreign affairs that should mark a candidate for the second-highest office in the land. Republicans rightfully have criticized the Democratic nominee, Sen. Barack Obama, for his lack of experience, but Palin is a neophyte in comparison; how will Republicans reconcile the criticism of Obama with the obligatory cheering for Palin?...Most people would acknowledge that, regardless of her charm and good intentions, Palin is not ready for the top job. McCain seems to have put his political interests ahead of the nation's when he created the possibility that she might fill it. It's clear that McCain picked Palin for reasons of image, not substance.
warns Europe not to back U.S. in it's recognition of Osettia. UPI, DU. The first comment at Du was, let's send Palin to straighten it all out.
better unnoticed than being a laughingstock
News-Miner again, in round-up local reaction story:
Lately her reputation within the state has been bit by allegations of mixing political and family business, and by mistreating one of the state's premier marine mammals. Palin's catch-phrase of "openness and transparency" has been tarnished by revelations that staff members tried to have Palin's former brother-in-law fired from his job as an Alaska state trooper. Also, the governor of the only state with polar bears has adamantly opposed listing the animals as a threatened species, despite strong evidence that global warming has devastated their sea ice environment off Alaska's coast. Dermot Cole, a longtime columnist for Alaska's second largest newspaper, the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, called McCain's choice of Palin "reckless" and questioned her credentials. "Sarah Palin's chief qualification for being elected governor was that she was not Frank Murkowski," Cole said of her enormously unpopular predecessor, who lost favor with
h/t Daily Kos
cont'd: who lost favor with Alaskans in part because of unpopular budget cuts. "She was not elected because she was a conservative. She was not elected because of her grasp of issues or because of her track record as the mayor of Wasilla."
"If Palin is unqualified . . . as a Governor what does that say about Obama as a Senator[?]," this is arch, classic, dishonest, Rovian fraud tactics.
Examine the context. The McCain campaign, since the time Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee, has been going after what it understood to be, in comparison to McCain's, Obama's thin resume. Calling him unexperienced, the campaign took to appropriating the words of Sen. Clinton in its ads to suggest a consensus on this issue. Who could blame them? McCain's unappetizing menu of warmed up Bush leftovers gave him no advantage over his rival among voters in the upcoming general election (continued).
McCain revved up the religious right which will help his ground game. He had no ground game and limited resources. In that regard it was brilliant. But also dangerously reckless to put someone of her stature as next-in-line to the Presidency.
but rather that is was a desperate decision made in the grips of fear that he will even lose the Repub fundamentalists and "base" votes if he didn't do something erratic in the hopes it would come off as something smart.
This choice will not only not help McSame, but rather make him look, as you wrote mary, reckless -- and stupid to boot.
McCain's credentials are pretended to be in foreign affairs and the nation's security. This choice shows that he neither knows nor cares about either one. Other than his pretended credentials, what else does he have? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Out of desperation, McCain has chosen a political unknown, even to him, to be a running mate. Marty and his ilk immediately accuse Obama of being unqualified next to her, as if it wasn't the McCain campaign who has made inexperience a driving issue all this time, as if the Obama campaign ever even heralded relative experience as a campaign virtue.
It seems apparent that because Republicans believe unbelievable things, the Republican Party views voters as gullible. Obama has never relied upon experience as the qualifying criterion for the presidency because, as Bill Clinton said, it can be argued that no one is ever qualified to be President. The quality of the experience, not the quantity, is what matters. For that reason, even nonpoliticians like Washington and Eisenhower distinguished themselves as presidents.
Yet Marty acts as if McCain hasn't been going after Obama for months on this pretense, and acts defensive about attacks on Palin's experience.
for Palin to cut her teeth on.......
Israel decides to not allow a nuclear Iran and will do whatever it takes, and the U.S. has not yet given an oK to use the air space over Iraq.
After the announcement, a high official in Iran said if there was an attack on Iran it would be the start of a world war. IRNA/Drudge
You're feisty,....go get'em Palin. You can figure it out, as soon as you figure out what a VP does.
- Dean is first.
By Tom Bearse on Aug 30, 2008 9:15 AM EDTThere, I've said it.
Obama rally at Hart Plaza in downtown Detroit on Monday at 8:30 a.m. All are invited.