Home » The Watercooler for 11/03/09 5:00 PM
The Watercooler for 11/03/09 5:00 PM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
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I think it will happen but not before December First. good luck and stay well
- What you propose others to do is not only unhealthy but
By Joan In Florida on Nov 3, 2009 6:22 PM ESTpossibly dangerous.
Even those who want to lose a few pounds. should understand this would not be the way to lose weight.
And it is not the way to demand anything either.
Go get arrested instead. You'll live longer.
I don't doubt your sincerity, but hunger strikes without notoriety up front, are, frankly, a lost cause. I watched Mitch Snyder play that game, and win it ~~ but he was tightly targeted with a much smaller wish, his local paper was the WaPo, and the people he was battling on the issue was a much smaller group, plus a President who had to power to deliver.
Mia Farrow, on the other hand, had to call hers off. You look as if you need to gain at least fifty pounds before you start.
So no, noble cause that it is, I wouldn't join you.
I knew people in China who'd suffered through "the three hard years" and the aftermath of starvation is devasting. I'm asking you to rethink your frustration, and find a better way.
- Thanks for saying that to Wendy about her present weight
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 7:13 PM ESTI'm not sure how long she'd last on a hunger strike if that is a recent photo of her.
Merkel's call for climate change action right up there too.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, in a rare address to both houses of Congress, has called on the US to join European efforts on global warming.
http://www.truthout.org/1103095
Military Commissions Revived: Don't Do It, Mr. President!
Tuesday 03 November 2009
by: Andy Worthington, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed
I was so delighted that the Defense Authorization Act, signed into law by President Obama on Wednesday, ....... that I overlooked two other distressing facts.Firstly, the Act authorizes 680 billion dollars to be spent - a mind-boggling amount of money - and secondly, it includes amendments to the Military Commissions Act of 2006, authorizing the revival of the much-maligned "terror trials" that were first dragged from obscurity by Dick Cheney and his close advisers in November 2001.
I have spent much of the last two years railing against the folly and injustice of the Commissions, and, like human rights groups and lawyers, am not remotely assured that the Commissions' latest incarnation is either prudent or necessary.
The Obama uberloyalists trash those of us who point out his obvious and well-documented lapses in leadership--without a shred of evidence to support their dubious claims.
Healthcare provision seeks to embrace prayer treatments
Reporting from Washington - Backed by some of the most powerful members of the Senate, a little-noticed provision in the healthcare overhaul bill would require insurers to consider covering Christian Science prayer treatments as medical expenses.
The provision was inserted by Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) with the support of Democratic Sens. John F. Kerry and the late Edward M. Kennedy, both of Massachusetts, home to the headquarters of the Church of Christ, Scientist.
The measure would put Christian Science prayer treatments -- which substitute for or supplement medical treatments -- on the same footing as clinical medicine. While not mentioning the church by name, it would prohibit discrimination against "religious and spiritual healthcare."read more: http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-health-religion3-2009nov03,0,6879249,full.story
Lost in space, nothing to go on.
"The Obama uberloyalists trash those of us who point out his obvious and well-documented lapses in leadership--without a shred of evidence to support their dubious claims."
Woe, woe, woe. Surely there is not help for us since the captain knows, and we are done for.
- no one can really be satisfied with the compromise before us
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 7:14 PM ESTand I do think Obama could have pushed harder, since he is going to own this thing going forward
that said anything would beat the heck out of the disaster we have now
If the voters don't see real reform--lower costs and an end to denials and "pre-existing conditions" in the next few months, The reform that Obama owns will be a failure and will result in significant loss of seats, if not control of one or both houses.
If Obama accepts delays and/or a trigger just to get Princess Olympia's vote, that won't " beat the heck out of the disaster we have now", it will leave the Insurance companies in control, and will "trigger" a voter revolt in the mid-terms, Pat's and Denise's ugly comments notwithstanding.
This planet is inhabited by grumpons - man your lasers ;)
to support your sarcasm and ugly metaphors
Huj ~~ does it ever occur to you that Pat is one of *the* most even handed, non-emotional bloggers we have? Do you think she's responding to *anything* but frustration with the constant negatrive drumbeat? Figure who's the leader of that drumbeat, and you'll have the cause of the frustration.
not 48 hours after we learned of Anni's death, you chose to speak ill of her.
funny thing ~~ Anni mentioned the cereal
By puddle on Nov 2, 2009 2:38 PM PST
once, in March. Two months later mainefem was *still* harping on it, lol! This is not to deny that Anni's comments about jobs and job hunting weren't, erm, insensitive, to say the least. . . .***********************
Doesn't sound like love and respect to me.
- I didn't answer because I knew it would involve bringing this up again
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:06 PM ESTbut Tom chose to do that, to lay bait. I'm also sorry that puddle took it, but she does speak the truth. Lots of us had something to say about that at DemFest, especially Charlie, who was very hurt by the comments (yep, he lurks at times).
Love and respect works both ways, and it's always nice to show that respect when one is still alive - while one still has the chance. Charlie never did anything to Anni to "earn" her ugly comments about his situation.
Tom made the mention of cereal, I didn't remember it, he directed me to the thread with the battle, in which Anni was *fully* participatory.
I commented that mainefem was out of line in dragging it up again and again. Which does *not* make it okay to throw into the face of the desperately unemployed that *YOU* have a job.
Anni is who she was, and I did love her. That love did not and does not make me blind, anymore than loving mainefem makes her right to harp on Anni's choice to spend her money on trips if that is what she wanted to do.
I didn't speak "ill" of her; I spoke truth.
She's pretty much dropped out of sight. I'm concerned but have no way of contacting her. I have a feeling she might be on the street, last I heard, eviction was imminent. I do think she finally got food stamps, though. She doesn't like to be prayed for, so hopefully light is shining on her somewhere.
She is off of facebook and no one there has heard from her in quite awhile. Not much we can do, but I did do some Googling.....nothing found, thankfully.
Maybe she'll see this and tell me to fuck off and mind my own business. I'd take that right about now :)
- cC made great points earlier. My referance never came over
By dog soldier on Nov 3, 2009 7:17 PM ESTIt dealt with Greenspan and breaking up the banks.
Banks first went down the slippery slope of investments when they went after the mass 401k/IRA monies. This was a desirable effect the Reagan nutjobs wanted by destroying unions; and unions not being able to address the assault on their existence.
There was this huge bucket of new money into the investment markets, and the investers were not very savvy in the investment market place. The banksters won the lotto and are still winning every day.
By getting the law changed without oversight on the deposit-investment interface, banks could offer these investment newbees the investment instruments that were reserved for wall-street types. For banks to survive in an investment market, they had to add an investment side. The money was just too much to ignore. Since no regulation was put in, banks do whatever they want on the investment side, but still get protection because of the link to the deposit side.
Let's suppose I have a few grand to invest as my pension is being cut. The bank can always put it in a CD which may cover inflation. Or they can point to a range of mutual funds that the unwary investor may choose because of the chance for big returns.
What has to occur is once the money is moved from the deposit side to the investment side the investment activity doesn't count on the deposit side.
Everyone gambles that the good times last forever. But we all know that isn't the case. The deposit side loses the origional deposit because they don't have it anymore. But they also don't have the losses when the investments tank.
Congress must write a law that the investment side is never bailed out; only the deposit side by FDIC and the instruments are never blended.
Also rewrite bankruptcy law so 401K/IRA holders are ahead of creditors and bond holders. This limits the moral hazard of banks wiping out everyone.
There should be data checks when a bank has so many multiples of depositors invested, the boards of directors are put on notice and the margins they have on the investment sides are lowered. Even though the deposit side is isolated, the relative size is a valid datapoint of activity. Any dishonesty results in being put in jail cells with Leroy - the mass serial killer, whose mother was wiped out by their actions.
All the data can be found on the bank income statements.
what do you think of the news Britain is breaking up the "too big to fail" banks?
- I mentioned yesterday that Britain had less oversight then we had
By dog soldier on Nov 3, 2009 7:32 PM ESTFor years, bankers here have been compalining about lax British banking laws; which draws capital.
Even though the intentions may be good, there is just too much of a tendency to push legality right up to the edge. If not, your competition will do it.
Everyone must be forced to add transparency.
Have transparency and regulate the deposit-investmestment interface and much of these issues go away. Also redoe the bond rating system...
So, I am not a big fan of breaking up banks. I want to limit the damage investment banks do to the rest of the banking system.
- it must be a global regulatory regime or the gambling will just be all done in Monte Carlo
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 7:35 PM ESTI still would like to see a transaction tax so money would be nudged towards investment rather than speculation
The tax is risk and risk was ignored.
The banksters ignored the laws of physics: Risk is never ignored, it is transformed into higher investment costs.
- the collection of the tax will provide transparency of the money flows
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 7:47 PM EST.
because no one knows what else to do.
Before doing something with lots of unknown consequences, study the problem and decide what parts are the problem. Correct those parts.
It is a more of an engineering approach instead of a big hammer and fix it later approach.
- I still maintain the bubble could have been anything and the vehicle just happened to be securitized mortgages
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 7:52 PM ESTtulip bulbs in sixteenth century Holland had the same market bubble and bust
the easiest way to reduce risk is to know what the position of a counter party really is
we have established that people will take money if you give it to them
time for the Fed to start raising interest rates
I really like your points here:
Congress must write a law that the investment side is never bailed out; only the deposit side by FDIC and the instruments are never blended.
Also rewrite bankruptcy law so 401K/IRA holders are ahead of creditors and bond holders. This limits the moral hazard of banks wiping out everyone.
There should be data checks when a bank has so many multiples of depositors invested, the boards of directors are put on notice and the margins they have on the investment sides are lowered. Even though the deposit side is isolated, the relative size is a valid datapoint of activity.--
especially the part about sharing the cell with Leroy the serial killer:))
These are well thought out. Something still niggling in the back of my mind about "too big to fail"...that just the concept is unnecessarily risky but I'll think about these suggestions. Thanks!
the commitment, we who have lived one of the most privileged lives in the history of the world? Do we do nothing but complain, predict disaster, threaten to hold our breaths until we turn blue?
This is not worthy of us, of our country, of our leader as President. This is weak, whining, puling, infantile. Grading the president, how ridiculous. We haven't even begun except in small steps for the enormous change this country must make with respect to the environment, the food infrastructure, education, health care, information, and cooperation with the world, and yet, the whining, the constant criticism, the prediction of failure.
I'm reminded of Edgar Lee Masters poems in Sppon River Anthology where the old lady chastises the weak and soft generation that never knew hunger, disease and death there were no cures for, backbreaking labor that shortened lives, fear, lack of support.
This is pitiful.
Well, off to Taco Tuesday to hear some congenial and intelligent conversation, with certain exceptions of course.
all in fun Pat, but remember NCLB pulls the plug on schools based on test scores
it just shows the high expectations
woot!
I remember the elation of one year ago. How could expectations been any higher?
you could come up with a grading on the curve method and with Bush in the class that would be all A's
he has demonstrated world leadership on a couple of key fronts, Western rapproachment with Islam, and disarmament progress with Russia
The buck stops in the oval office.
Whether you like it or not, Obama will be assigned grades, and for leadership, he's flirting with an F
which takes place in Illinois in the early 20th century.
11.03.2009
Election Night Overview
by Nate Silver @ 6:20 PMHere are the seven races that we'll be making at least some effort to track for you tonight:
538 ~~ Twitter:
Nobody calling VA yet. An eensy-weensy-tiny-winy good sign for the Democrats. 23 minutes ago reply
the very schools who needed the most help. It's a little like telling someone she/he is hopeless, dumb. It's a Republican, Social/Darwinist premise. Moreover, in the bill, schools could only hire private companies to tutor kids. It was one more attempt to privatize education, take from the general fund that taxpayers pay into.
That's another example of what we need to do to correct the course that we've been on since Reagan, but it will take more than one year and two terms of Obama's presidency to correct.
That's why all the glee and effort to make Obama into a failure I find so disgusting. There's a push to condemn him in every way from some people in our society, and it hurts the whole.
Grade the president, well, if you've nothing better to do, but it's foolish and stupid, a waste of time when we really need to inform each other, share new ideas, and become active in the way we can.
Sigh!
If you don't push back you get more of the same. Obama needs to be pushed to do the right thing just like anybody else because there arer bad guys pushing the other way for sure.
- That's why all the glee and effort to make Obama into a failure I find so disgusting
By Hu Jo on Nov 3, 2009 7:41 PM ESTI take no glee in pointing out the obvious. Obama's actions have consistently lagged the promises and the rhetoric.
That's failure.
and you do it constantly, then can it be deduced that you like not being gleeful?
If he doesn't make some big changes, the repugs will be ruling us. I don't want that! Incremental's not gonna be enuf. The pitchforks are out. If Obama's character and personality don't allow for strong-arming, then the mostly wimpy dems have to.
Grayson's looking good. What's wrong with a primary challenge to vote in a progressive?
Of course, I really don't think we elect critters anymore; I think the Money Party does.
- re: If Obama's character and personality don't allow for strong-arming
By Jo*in*Vermont on Nov 3, 2009 8:43 PM ESTand if he were strong-arming anyone for any reason you'd no doubt be bitchin about that. we get it, sea.
HuJo - are you sincere about thinking Obama deserves an 'F"? he's been a disappointment on several fronts, but an 'F'? really?
is an a$$, trying to blame the economic woes entirely on Obama.
and with your pronouncements, you certainly sound like one. No, not ugly, but I definitely feel the ugliness of your comments on a daily basis, eg. uberloyalists, etc. Uh uh, not a pleasant exchange. Do you ever laugh at anything? Do you find joy in anything? Your sop that you like Obama but hate his policies is transparent for the nonsense it is, for the attempt to put lipstick on your partiuclar brand of pig.
Well, off now.
What a difference one DNC Chair makes. Howard was everywhere!! Tim Kaine not so much. I haven't seen nor heard anything from him. What does this man even do?
I believe he is still Governor and hasn't actually taken the job yet, just the title. (Howard will be hard to top, destined for the DNC Chair Hall of Fame)
http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/11/thinking-the-unthinkable.html#more
America still does everything possible except prepare to become a different America, perhaps even a better America than the current release, and this is unfortunate because history is merciless. History doesn't care if the dog peed on your homework... or you had car trouble this morning... or the tattoo on your neck got infected... or (to take this in another direction), you justified robbing scores of billions of dollars out of the mortgage sector because your too-big-to-fail company came down with the financial equivalent of swine flu and the top executives were hallucinating that they lived in a world with no boundaries of law or common decency.
I LOL (out loud)
- Would go a long way if you shared some of that with the rest of us
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:09 PM ESTPerception is reality. You're perceived as something you are not, you say. But your behaviors here are all that we have to go on since not one of us has ever met you in person, nor have you ever showed us your jovial side.
a little balance here wouldn't be so threatening to some if it didn't have a ring of truth
- Right - and the truth is, he's not gleeful nor jovial
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:17 PM ESTbased on his behaviors here. Pretty easy to understand. If he doesn't like the comments we make about it, tough cookies.
- If all of us Obama supporters allowed ourselves to express disappointment now and then the whole burden wouldn't fall on seashell, John, and Mike
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 8:03 PM ESTI still give him a bunch of solid B's.
but if I don't post that everyday, does it change how I feel? No, of course not.
Would have liked to see a better PO, too.
But to say he's not a leader? I just don't see that at all.
Phil, I know you made the decision to work inside the system to reform it. What are the chances you might hook up with people like Weiner, Dean and Grayson and work outside the system...or w/o them? You're dynamite, but the system is broken. Fixing it doesn't seem to be probable.
I'd love to see you be a progressive renegade trying a fresh approach.
I'm satisfied with the contributions I have made. leading an entire state convention in a debate about support of gay marriage was viewed by some as a renegade progressive after the dems had gone along with a defense of marriage law
I'll stand behind my body of work over the decades in the direction I've moved the Party.
For all his 'star quality' and likable personality, President Obama is increasingly perceived as impotent where the real ongoing disasters of public life are concerned, and he has made the tragic choice to appear to be hostage to the bankers who are systematically draining the life-blood from the middle class. Whatever we are seeing on the S & P ticker these days does not register the agony of ordinary people losing everything they worked for and even believed in. In a leadership vacuum, centers don't hold, things come apart, and rough beasts slouch toward Wall Street.
http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/11/thinking-the-unthinkable.html#more
If all of us Obama supporters allowed ourselves to express disappointment now and then the whole burden wouldn't fall on seashell, John, and Mike
the economy B (prevented a great depression)
new green economy B (huge step forward in the stimulus projects)
Health care B (about to add millions to the rolls of those insured)
Civilian control B (ask McCrystal how quick the response was from Obama when he said jump and expected Obama to ask how high)
climate change B (we now have a real scientist giving scientific advice)
Afganistan incomplete (still working on the paper)
a little balance here wouldn't be so threatening to some if it didn't have a ring of truth
I am never threatened by what you or anyone else here says. You don't say much that affects what the rest of us are actually doing. It's kind of like swatting flies, actually.
if you recognize Obama when he does a good thing (like send his SOS to meet with Arab leaders over the ME deadlock)
would toss pennies into the monkey's cup. Utterly predictable.
ok...this is just a question and with all due respect to Lindab for her tireless efforts on behalf of progressive candidates:
Would VA have been better off nominating Terry Mc(something) in the primary?
Would he have stood a better chance at winning?
An honest inquiry....don't toss tomatoes;)
- I just don't get all the personal abuse John and seashell get for posting their POV
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 8:31 PM ESTjust because it doesn't include any happy talk
live and let live
it can be refuted without the personal jabs
intent
live and let live goes for the president too, no? Oh sorry my mistake
I'll be watching for you to call out everyone Phil - that is, if you really want that job. You do seem to like it for some reason. Some of us get sick of the same shit, every day. We don't post stuff about Obama's positive side unless we feel he's being attacked. And that happens here daily. We all agree that is their right. It is our right to call it out as being a total bummer on a daily basis. And that directly relates to ones personality. Show us another side and we might see another side - otherwise, it won't happen. You can't claim to be one way and behave another.
I've shown my traveling side, humorous side, dancing side, serious side. You all see and hear only what you want to see and hear. Here's another side :-)
They *preemt* it all ahead of any actual happening. And it's been that way here since *before* he was even sworn in. In the same way, I'm not going to add my criticism of Israel when there is already such a pile of it sitting on the rug.
- Heck it was that way before he even won the primary
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:40 PM ESTBitchers like to bitch. Some of us don't appreciate it. Oh well, like dog says, we own the scroll wheel to move past perceived dishonest posts. (The "why", not the "what")
the burden to be civil falls on all of us
Mike doesn't need to be called a monkey for expressing disappointment
- Mike says he only reads your, HuJo's and Sea's posts anyway
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:46 PM ESTso what does it matter to YOU? YOU don't like to see that? SOME OF US (most, actually) don't like to see what others post CONSTANTLY, complete with ignorant remarks about not only Obama but his choices in his administration.
I've been called alot of bad names by HuJo and seashell. So have others. NOT ONCE have you ever come to our defense. Ever. Think about that.
- edit: I wasn't responding to his grading of the President. More to his joy in making people "take his bait" over London/the Brits. . . .
By puddle on Nov 3, 2009 8:52 PM ESTiWhat Mike expressed was a lot of pleasure in making fools of us all, Phil. That ol' "I didn't mean it, but look at the idiots who took my bait." This *is* not new. At all. There are many worse things I could have called him than an organgrinder's monkey, and they would have been true, too.
Mike has a LOT of contempt for this blog and these bloggers, and always has had.
- Mike has a world view that compliments rather than conforms
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 9:03 PM ESTI don't see the injury. why demand samethink? I see supporters of Obama critical of outlier thought when what makes Obama so special to me is that he deliberately listens to countering points of view rather than demand samethink
there is something twisted about attacking someone for not being an Obama supporter because they are willing to act like what Obama himself expects of his cabinet, that they freely express counter views
I still owe Mike a beer for voting for Obama in the primary and am sure I will enjoy the occasion when I get the chance as much as I did lunch with thankful and donna
"the burden to be civil falls on all of us"--
and that includes refraining from passive-aggressive commentary where they can hide behind plausible deniability.
"If all of us Obama supporters allowed ourselves to express disappointment"--
I've posted my concerns. Not one for foolish happy talk, myself.
Had a long discussion about some of these concerns with LWC on Sunday during our visit.
Gave her some tomatoes, too:))
- Am having some for dinner with what is left of my Humboldt Fog
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 8:41 PM ESTman they're good. What a beautiful garden you and Ame have! Can't wait to see the winter one.
- The only real personal conversation I ever had with Al Gore
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 8:39 PM ESTwas a philosophic one over what the job of President is as the single representative in Government of all the people (including wingnuts); and that leads one in a natural centrist direction according to Gore and he said it rather regrettfully because it was more restraining of partisanship than maybe was his nature, he was giving rousing progressive speeches the day he traveled Iowa after coming out for Howard in late 2003
and it is why Howard was such a terrific Party Chair
had be been President he would have been a great one too but the progressives still would have been bitching because he would have been a centrist
Howard is absolutely a centrist. Some forget that.
Have you forgotten the environment? We'd be zillions of miles ahead on that and likely would not be bogged down in eternal ME wars. And he would likely have supported single payer, but not sure about that.
I don't think Gov. Dean would have made Emanuel his COS or appointed Summers or Geithner. He's honest.
.
Yes!!!! I mean No!!!! Confusing hey? I had to re-read my ballot concerning equal rights here in WA. Methinks the wingers planned it that way to confuse folks...
Time to invest in the wedding business in Maine. There is going to be a boom soon.
- Mike is a medical professional and I would like his take on where the Senate and House versions need to be reconciled.
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 8:54 PM ESTand maybe I would get to hear that if he hadn't been attacked just for the act of giving grades.
failing where? would be my question
.my take after reading the House Bill is that they just gave up on the heavy lifting and threw it all in there
- Phil, he *said* he comes here to drop bait, and get a reaction.
By puddle on Nov 3, 2009 9:04 PM ESTIs there anything unclear about that? Do you think he was lying?
funny thing ~~ Anni mentioned the cereal
By puddle on Nov 2, 2009 2:38 PM PST
once, in March. Two months later mainefem was *still* harping on it, lol! This is not to deny that Anni's comments about jobs and job hunting weren't, erm, insensitive, to say the least. . . .**********************
Not even 24 hours after we knew about Anni, this came out. Talk about speaking ill of the dead and being insensitive!
what's new?
Yesterday, I was talking to a woman who never blogs and used to read and send her friends here. She quit sending friends becuz of all the personal attacks.
I asked her to mention names and she did. Mike, Hu Jo and I weren't on her list of bloggers hurling personal insults.
Want the list? :-)
And some of you can't figure out why we can't/don't/won't end wars. Çharity begins at home.
Deeds v. Obama in Virginia
by Nate Silver
@ 7:58 PM
County_______ Deeds Obama
King & Queen_ 41.0 51.8
Prince Edward 44.9 54.3
Westmoreland_ 41.4 54.6
Wythe________ 27.3 32.9
Lexington____ 60.5 62.2
Williamsburg_ 54.6 63.8
Winchester___ 39.2 52.0
AVERAGE______ 44.1 53.1
These
counties are actually fairly representative -- Obama won 52.6 percent
of the vote in Virginia overall -- so it looks like Deeds is going down
to defeat on the order of 56-44. This is why some of the networks are
starting to call the race.
Thanks for keeping us informed puddle. lindab's work is not in vain, though. We just keep trying. Garamendi was a good win for CA.
Virginia'll be blue *forever* lol! But bet she feels wretched tonight. I poll watched for McGovern, and it was an awful feeling to walk back to the car, turn the radio on, and the whole election had been called.
Garamendi ran on a progressive platform in this moderate district, won the primary and now the general. Garamendi has been for single-payer for years. He's pro-environment and anti-war. The Labor movement loves Garamendi. He's going to be a very good congressman but I'm sad he's not going to be our next Governor.
ok...this is just a question and with all due respect to Lindab for her tireless efforts on behalf of progressive candidates:
Would VA have been better off nominating Terry Mc(something) in the primary?
Would he have stood a better chance at winning?
An honest inquiry....don't toss tomatoes;)
I'd rather take a good loss than a bad win.
Dems voting against the public option:(
- Auliffe. I don't think so. He and Creigh are about the same, politically,
By puddle on Nov 3, 2009 9:48 PM ESTplus Terry's a carpet bagger. Brian Moran may have done it.
Was it Truman who said: give the voters a choice between a real Republican and fake one, and they'll pick the real one?
But I'll be waiting for lindab's take on it, too. . . .
- Harry Reid: Health Care Bill May Not Be Finished This Year
By Susan Rowe on Nov 3, 2009 9:37 PM ESTWASHINGTON — In a blow to the White House, the Senate's top Democrat signaled Tuesday that Congress may fail to meet a year-end deadline for passing health care legislation, leaving the measure's fate to the uncertainties of the 2010 election season.
Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., spoke as Democratic officials said it could be December before Senate debate begins in earnest on the issue atop President Barack Obama's domestic agenda, months after senior lawmakers and the White House had hoped. The drive to pass legislation has been plagued for months by divisions within the party's rank and file.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/03/harry-reid-health-care-bi_n_344222.html
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America is trying to bring pressure on the Senate to ignore tradition and bring a veterans health care bill up for debate despite the anonymous hold on the bill placed by a senator.
The bill in question is S 1963, the Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2009, which includes three top priorities of the veterans group.
It contains a package of improvements for female veterans, including more training for mental health providers in treating sexual trauma, a pilot program to offer child care so that veterans who have children find it easier make appointments, and a trial counseling program in which newly separated female veterans would be treated in retreat-like settings.
It also would expand mental health programs for veterans in rural areas by contracting with local community mental health centers, and expand mental health services for the immediate families of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.
Improvement programs for homeless veterans also are included — a high priority for the Obama administration.
Although it is not one of the priority items for IAVA, another key part of the bill is a precedent-setting program that would pay stipends to family members who provide care to severely disabled veterans, rather than having the veteran institutionalized or receive regular at-home nursing care.
read more: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/11/military_veteransbill_delayed_110209w/
Howard Dean: ‘I Don’t Think We Should Impose Single-Payer On Everybody’
March 5, 2009 by Healthcare-NOW!
Some political pundits have portrayed former Gov. Howard Dean (D-VT) as a wacky liberal caricature, whose online supporters spam blog comment sections in favor of single-payer health care. But during an exclusive interview with ThinkProgress, Dean described parts of his own health care philosophy as conservative.
Rather than advocating for a broad overhaul of the health care system, for instance, Dean argued that we can build on what works in our current system and reform health care by giving Americans the choice of keeping their existing insurance plan or enrolling in a new public option.
Dean predicted that more Americans would chose a public plan, but he ultimately argued against a single-payer proposal:
Full article at Think Progress.
Wow, the Center for Processing Americans called me a bfa spammer. How special is that. But they finely had to end up writing book to define the public option.
I'm a shameless progressive and local Democratic Party Leader who lives in a hopelessly gerrymanded red congressional district. Our local small business owners are for single-payer and are against the TARP. And just about everybody in my district wants the war in Afghanistan to end. IMO, the DC wonk$ at CPA are cluele$$ly poll$ter driven.
good conversation. The only attacking that goes on here on a daily basis is from HuJo, Mike, and Seashell. It goes back years from Obama as a Black Muslim who would never be elected, to the ongoing pronouncements of his daily failures. There is no analysis, just pronouncements and links that speak the particular perspective of failure, duplicity, broken promises etc.
We hear that daily in the media andd here, while the rest of the bloggers have a variety of points of view, express disappointment, dismay, suggestions when Obama's leadership isn't what we want it to be. There's no Uberloyalists here that I know other than HuJo, Seashell, and Mike who have only one point of view, which is Obama ("Your president" Seashell said), is a failure, inadequate, unable, unwilling, and in cahoots with the captialists.
That you defend that blinkered thinking is surpriseing, Phil. No one has ever said that Obama is perfect, has done what Progessives want him to do. Frankly, it's out and out prejudice, as bad in its way as Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and others. That it's tolerated here is a measure of the generosity and civility of the bloggers.
The grading is simply foolish, a nattering, superficial and spurious as always, but no one cares. It's the arrogance and prejudice, the will to failure, the lack of analysis and balance from these jokers. Enough already. It's lipstick on a particularly revolting piggishness.
Try practicing what Obama does. Do you think he talks to people who disagree with him the way you do?
The "attacks" you mentioned, are criticisms of Obama, not personal attacks on you.
That it's tolerated here is a measure of the generosity and civility of the bloggers.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!
Still Too Close to Call in New Jersey (Update: Apparently Not?)
by Nate Silver
Taking an unweighted average in these counties, Corzine is running about 8 points off his pace from four years ago, when he won 53.5 percent of the vote. That would put him at 45.5 percent -- probably not quite enough to win -- but this is an imprecise analysis for a number of reasons and Corzine's numbers are holding up a bit better in the more vote-heavy counties in North Jersey. And I don't know to what extent absentee ballots are included or not included in this count, which were thought to favor Corzine.
Still too close to call. Too close to even think about calling.
EDIT: Err... apparently not, as the AP has called the race for Christie. Other networks have not so far. But I'm looking at this one-dimensionally -- comparing percentages, but not turnout -- whereas hopefully they're looking at both factors.
So far Owens is ahead in NY 23 and that creepy Hoffman is behind by 5%. Not to sound like one of the mean girls in high school but Hoffman is so strange looking. He just makes my skin crawl.
Edgar Lee Masters (1868–1950). Spoon River Anthology. 1916.
207. Lucinda Matlock
| I WENT to the dances at Chandlerville, | |
| And played snap-out at Winchester. | |
| One time we changed partners, | |
| Driving home in the moonlight of middle June, | |
| And then I found Davis. | 5 |
| We were married and lived together for seventy years, | |
| Enjoying, working, raising the twelve children, | |
| Eight of whom we lost | |
| Ere I had reached the age of sixty. | |
| I spun, I wove, I kept the house, I nursed the sick, | 10 |
| I made the garden, and for holiday | |
| Rambled over the fields where sang the larks, | |
| And by Spoon River gathering many a shell, | |
| And many a flower and medicinal weed— | |
| Shouting to the wooded hills, singing to the green valleys. | 15 |
| At ninety-six I had lived enough, that is all, | |
| And passed to a sweet repose. | |
| What is this I hear of sorrow and weariness, | |
| Anger, discontent and drooping hopes? | |
| Degenerate sons and daughters, | 20 |
| Life is too strong for you— | |
| It takes life to love Life. |
- Will self-funders think twice about running in 2010 in this environment?14 minutes ago from web
- RT @Thetonylee: Hoffman loss would parallel Dean loss in IA caucuses ;2many out of towners turning locals off/Also-HORRIBLE watertown intvu30 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- CHRISTIE WINS, per AP in New Jersey34 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- Ok -- if Hoffman loses -- why? Carpetbagger? The district isn't that conservative? Biden enthuses Democrats?35 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- Anti-incumbent sentiment gives Bloomberg a scare in New York? @howiewolf?36 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- Uh-oh. RT @ewerickson: Hoffman race too close to call for now, but they are still cautiously optimistic.38 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- Dem also leading Charlotte mayor's race. Openly gay Dem leading in Chapel Hill, NC.39 minutes ago from TweetDeck
- Republicans suddenly VERY nervous about NY 23....40 minutes ago from web
- Ponderables: Why was the NYC mayor's race so close? How come Dems are doing OK in state leg races in VA?44 minutes ago from TweetDeck
It goes back years from Obama as a Black Muslim who would never be elected,
******************
Michael, Hu Jo and I never said this. Yes, he's black, but not a Muslim. I complained that he was too Jesusy for my taste. Pat, you're losing it.
*****************
Ånd I sincerely hope nobody else says anything negative about Anni. I will defend her since she's not here to defend herself.
Equal rights passes in Kalamazoo! Hooray for Hu Jo and Tom Bearse... I know you're not in Kalamazoo but hey, it's Michigan. Hah!
*NO* is still ahead in Maine. Pray it stays that way.
Owens still ahead in NY 23 and the wingers are freaking out.
I'd be happy with equality passing and Hoffman being defeated. Gee, will that be considered a referendum on the teabaggin' loonies like Palin, Beck, et al???????
<form>
Bill Owens (D) 45,654 - 49.3%
Doug Hoffman (C) 42,142 - 45.5%
Dede Scozzafava (R) - 4,876 - 5.3%
http://elections.nytimes.com/2...
http://www.ProgressFlorida.org
Looks like the progressive agenda is winning for Democrats and the DLC centrists agenda is losing.
Howard always said you can't win by being Republican-lite. BTW, he was spot-on in his analysis this week on NY 23. He said part of the district borders Vermont and to not rule out a Dem victory there. Gawd, I love that man.
Yes, progressive agenda wins the day all over this country. Let's hope *no* prevails in Maine.
"Looks like the progressive agenda is winning for Democrats and the DLC centrists agenda is losing. "---
and btw, I rarely ever, ever have anything good to say about Republicans but that Dede Scozzafava sounds like a decent person.
Maybe we do need more time to get it right and to educate the public. 2000 pages is a bit much for Joe voter to read and understand.
The counter-argument is that it will never get done, if not now. Also a possibility.
My POV is that a bad bill is worse than no bill, since IMO a bad bill will make what we have now even worse.
It's also possible Obama will toughen up a bit. He's young and it shows, but that could be a plus if he's willing to CHANGE.
said he'd never be elected, criticized Michelle Obama, again for some non-existant prejudice.
You have consistently demeaned Obama, then praised him for something to indicate balance. You are a fraud, dishonest, and someone who has been a disruptor, and a negative force ever since Obama has been elected, but that is your right.
Just know that you are transparent as is HuJo and Mike. You are revealed by what you bring here, and none of it is of any positive value that I can see, though honestly I wish it were. I wish that I could see something honest, genuine, and not self-aggrandizing and polarizing, some honest insight into the kind of leadership Obama offers and some suggestions as to what could be improved and how we could participate.
But, as I said, you are a fraud as are your compatriots who have opposed this man beyond anything that is rational or arguable. It is disgusting to me, and I'm tired of it. Howard Dean was the inspiration for all this: his integrity, courage, pragmatism, moderation, and willingness to work within the process, and you would destroy all that.
- Is this a personal attack about the state of Pat's mental health?
By Love White Castles on Nov 3, 2009 11:39 PM ESTWe'll see what Phil has to say about this!
Local paper Washington Independent:
NY-23: Watertown Mayor: ‘It’s Over’
By DAVID WEIGEL 11/3/09 10:50 PMSARANAC LAKE, N.Y. – I caught Watertown, N.Y., Mayor Jeff Graham, who endorsed NY-23 Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman this weekend, looking very glum at Hoffman’s election party. I asked him what happened in Jefferson County, where Watertown is located, and where Democrat Bill Owens is leading the vote.
“We lost,” said Graham. “The Scozzafava endorsement, the [Watertown Daily Times] endorsement of Owens–I mean, they roughed Hoffman up.”
Could Hoffman still pull out a win? Graham grimaced. “It’s over.”
has just called NY23 for the Dem, Bill Owens!!!!!!! Take that, Sarah Palin! Also.
11,000 absentee ballots have yet to be counted in NY 23 per Rachel. Conflicting news but it still doesn't look good for Hoffman. I'm scanning every news org.
I'm waiting for King County to report in for equality in my own state. King County is our most liberal county. Fingers crossed. WA peeps better come through...
Good news for progressives! Kinda makes mince meat of the "country is center-right."
Yes to hate is currently ahead in Maine. I sure hope this changes.
Wish mainefem were here to give us her take.
uhhg....those rat turd Indies:
Yet, national issues, like the recession, were clearly a factor, with voter attitudes shaped to some degree by how people feel about the state of their nation — and their place in it.
And, voter attitudes — particularly among independents — could bode ill for Democrats in moderate districts and in swing states like Ohio, Colorado and Nevada, should they remain unchanged when the party seeks to defend its turf next fall. In 2010, most governors, a third of the Senate and all members in the House will be on ballots.
I never saw the movie, so this is very interesting to me.
Terrorist "visiter" cells. That's a twist.
"Opponents of the ordinance said it would give special rights to a new group of people, and create inequality."
A new group of people? wtf?
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By Wendy J on Nov 3, 2009 5:01 PM ESTI am prepared to go on hunger strike, to urge the Senate and House to pass a true public option, not a sham, that will end the insanty of health care in this country. I propose to begin this strike on December 1. I ask others to join me, in eating no solid food, and drinking only water, coffee, tea, and soup broth, until we get the public option we need. Thank you.
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