The Watercooler for 11/04/09 5:00 PM

from Truthout.

Narda Zacchino Reports on George McGovern
"McGovern: Get Out of Afghanistan" -- George McGovern has some advice for President Barack Obama: Get U.S. troops out of Afghanistan. “I'm convinced that war is going to turn sour. I'm convinced we're not going to prevail there,” he said.

Robert Scheer on the Afghanistan Sham
"Keeping Afghanistan Safe from Democracy" -- The most idiotic thing being said about America’s involvement in Afghanistan is that the best way to protect the 68,000 U.S. troops there now is by putting an additional 40,000 in harm's way.

Chris Hedges on Afghan Evils
"Opium, Rape and the American Way" -- The warlords we champion in Afghanistan are as venal, as opposed to the rights of women and basic democratic freedoms, and as heavily involved in opium trafficking as the Taliban.

_INDEPENDENTS ARE KINGMAKERS

Voters who don't claim a political party again proved their value by propelling Republicans to victory in Virginia and New Jersey one year after carrying Obama to the White House.

Independents are, well, truly independent — and, thus, are extraordinarily fickle.

Last year, hope and change tilted them toward Democrats. This year, anger and frustration tilted them to Republicans. They broke 2-1 for GOP victors Chris Christie in New Jersey and Bob McDonnell in Virginia.

Issues, from jobs to taxes to government spending, drive this center of the electorate, so candidates who talk about what independents care most about will win the middle and, thus, elections.

Democrats must figure out a way to bring independents back into their fold — or risk huge losses next fall.

Still, Republicans must be mindful of the volatile nature of public attitudes, for independents who have moved toward the GOP since last fall could just as easily move back to the Democrats by next November.

Based on data/results, they tend to swing wildly from one party/platform to another.

They must all be unrecovering drunks.  :-)

they vote for the better candidate (as they see it) most of the time

just happened to be Republicans this time

the Democratic Party here in Iowa spends a lot of time recruiting good people to run, then some end up to be good candidates (work, hard, connect with voters) and those that don't lose

anybody that is "happy" with the present state of the economy is out to lunch

Democrats have a few months to turn it around.

the House race in New York was the instructive one, cheer on teabagger efforts to take over the Republican Party

If I were the White House I would spend one day worrying about it before getting back to work creating jobs.

I have no secrets.  The UP had the highest rate of alcoholism in the country, and yes, there were many alcoholics I knew, including my family.  But, they were functioning, what's called social alcoholics.  I discovered after reading Malcolm Gladwell's article in the New Yorker on football and concussions, that my dear dad suffered brain damage.  His deterioration followed accurately what Gladwell suggested: rages, slurring of words, inability to get along with people, failure, and it breaks my heart.  Football was for so many young men the way to a college education, to a rise in status.  He showed me the scars on his head.  That changed so much in my feelings for him.  So, yes, a real discovery, but I'd long since resolved the issue of alcohol. 

We all at some point have experineced sadness, loss, rejection, failure and problems.

I don't think of those as something to be ashamed of, rather to be glad for and grateful for survival.

You intimate some really ugly things, some things that I can't imagine, that would destroy credibility???Terrible secrets??? It makes me shudder.  What on earth are you imagining or thinking?

Well, let's call a truce.  As I said, it's how you treat people that has so distrubed me, cost us a friendship, and frankly, we both are to blame for the loss of trust. cont.

This has been a great companionship virtually on this blog ever since Howard Dean stepped up and told truth to the nation.  There are good people here.  There should be no malice or polarization, no recrimination, no prejudice.  All viewpoints are valid. 

So, I say, peace. Let's stop this, stop the malice, the threats, the constant denigation and try for some good conversation.  I apoloize for hurting you.  It wasn't my business.  But, I find you in violation of so many of my values.  As Dog Soldier so succictly said, Scroll, and that goes for both of us.

Surely, we are capable of converstaion without attacks, without malice.  I can't  help but think this is a holdover from the ongoing demonizaition of Bush.  It made it all right somehow.

So, I don't want to hurt you, and I don't want others to be hurt.  Let's give it a try.

how about some of your humor?

I understand.  I'm to blame for a temper.  I've just been sooooo disgusted with the constant denigration of Obama.  We worked so hard, hoped so much, try to stay informed, and to witness almost daily on a variety of blogs the left going after him nearly to the same extent as the right has made me nearly despair.

I don't understand anymore how we have become so demanding, so righteous (she says, admitting she's probably the most righteous person here), so willing to castigate and complain.  So, that's my onus.  If I wanted to hear that stuff constantly, I'd go to the Rush Limbaugh blog.  But, it's not only here.  It's on KOs, Huffington Post, and others.

Any of us who have seerved in public office or worked as activists or staffers knows how difficult are human relationships.  They are not zero sum, and it takes so much tact, insight, good will, that I guess maybe it's time for me to take a vacation for a while from blogging.

So, I undestand your viewpoint, LWC and PHil's and Dog's and Puddle's and cC's.  Point taken.

And Pat, I miss you mightily when you're not here.

Peace.

Always thoughtful.

seashell, I don't think I've ever missed a tango video that you have posted.  Also, it is frustrating that when we finally win the White House and have congressional majorities that we still can't get progressive policies enacted.  LWC and I discussed this a bit on Sunday.  Just trying to say, speaking for myself, that I believe I get the essence of your positions...for the most part.

We should all try to be more tolerant of a wide variety of opinions but I'd like to add that we should also try to present facts.

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ok....I once got in huge trouble in 4th grade for giving Jimmy Schatz the answers to a spelling test!!:(((

Teacher's conference with the folks....the whole bit.

in second grade and gave it to my boyfriend who told his mother who told my mother who told my dad, and I felt terrible, mostly because I was caught.

HuJo, snort, snort, how about this quote from above:

"This has been a great companionship virtually on this blog ever since Howard Dean stepped up and told truth to the nation.  There are good people here.  There should be no malice or polarization, no recrimination, no prejudice.  All viewpoints are valid. "

Guess this must be a confessional blog.  Thanks for the kind words and honest words.

Seashell, I'll give it some thought about talking on the phone.  Life is short, and anger eats the persons who carry it.

Off to dinner.

raise the straw man of the unitary executive. Being a leader doesn't mean you're a dictator. And ironically, Obama is seeking to preserve the most obnoxious and repulsive aspects of the Bush-Cheney Unitary Executive-- Like continuing warrantless spying on American citizens, and denial of basic constitutional rights to detainees.

http://www.alternet.org/story/143716/it%27s_time_to_rebuild_our_passenger_railroad_system

Restoring the American railroad system is an excellent place to start recovering our sense of national purpose and faith in collective enterprise.

For the moment, any suggestion that a railroad revival in America might be a good thing is generally greeted as laughable for reasons ranging from the incompetence of Amtrak, to the sprawling layout of our suburbs, to our immense investment in cars, trucks and highways -- motoring culture now overshadowing all other aspects of our national identity.

Obama’s High-Speed Rail Plan

I’m watching Barack Obama’s remarks on high-speed rail, which I think are excellent, but I’m more interested in the fact sheet I’ve gotten in the old inbox from the White House since it sheds some light on something that I and others have been wondering about—how is this money supposed to be spent? The answer is that there will be a two-stage competitive grant process. In the first stage “applications will focus on projects that can be completed quickly and yield measurable, near-term job creation and other public benefits” and then there will be a “next round to include proposals for comprehensive high-speed programs covering entire corridors or sections of corridors.” What corridors are we talking about?

My take on this is that the most promising projects on the merits, from a federal point of view, are probably those that upgrade the existing Northeast Corridor (where we know demand exists) and those that connect to the Northeast Corridor since the existing passenger rail corridor extends the utility of the new link. The Chicago Hub Network and the California Corridor concepts strikes me as very important for the long-term future of their regions, but for it to be useful will take a lot of time and money. I assume that the relevant state-level politicians for the Gulf Coast and South Central Corridors aren’t going to be interested in ponying up the sort of state funds that would make these projects competitively viable, and that may be for the best since I think those corridors may be a bit ill-conceived. It seems strange to build so much track in Texas and not manage to link Houston with Dallas.

Until Bushco is prosecuted for war crimes and his unitary exec. policies repealed or overturned, we still have a unitary executive who can commit war crimes with impunity.

What will happen to us if the repubs take back the congress and the presidency? 

If Obama's character and personality don't allow him to be more forceful and use his power as a leader, then IMO we need s/o like Weiner or Howard or Grayson or Feingold.........

******************

RJ Eskow: Have We Missed the Key to Obama's Leadership Style?

Jul 11, 2008 ... If Obama's core value is unity, Democrats should know better than to expect him to fight their partisan fights for them

Obama Likely to Change US Leadership Style

Jan 14, 2009 ... During his victory speech on election night in Chicago, President-elect Obama promised "a new dawn" of American leadership in the world. ...

Obama's Ancient Leadership Style | Psychology Today

Nov 21, 2008 ... Obama embodies the most ancient leadership

qualities. By Christopher Ryan...

By Bridget Magnus.  Here's an excerpt, but you should read the rest:

To be honest, I knew we were in trouble when Rahm Emanuel arrived and you weren’t offered any position in the Administration. Let’s face it, Doctor: nobody has experienced the insurance industry from more angles than you. You’ve been insured, bought insurance for your employees, bought COBRA (you mentioned that in the debates, remember?), negotiated contracts and received reimbursement from insurance companies, and helped regulate insurance on the state level.  You managed to get coverage for every kid in your state, no questions asked!

. . . .

I’ve stopped giving money to the Democratic Party in all its forms for the reasons outlined above. Every time they call, I send money to Democracy for America or Move On. And that, Doctor Dean, is where you come in.

It is clear to me that for the most part my [former] party is hopeless: hopelessly corrupt, stupid, spineless, and generally worthless. You were clearly right to leave when you did, while you still had a reputation as a winning political tactician. I think that with your guidance, DFA and MoveOn could and should form a new political party, reclaiming “liberal” as a good word, and based firmly on the principles of the Bill of Rights. . . .

Please just consider it. Let’s be real here, if you thought there was hope for the party, you’d still be Chairman.

Thank you for your time. I hope all is well for you and your family.

I've had a lifetime of Presidents who for the most part only see bullying as leadership.  And I, for one, am relieved to see another methodology being tried, in practice, as opposed to just rhetoric.  And I'm beyond willing to give the man some time.

But I so find interesting is that element of the blog who'd I'd define as the bullies seem to think that the rest of us don't understand their POV, otherwise we'd agree with them ~~ and so hit us one more time, and one more time, and one more time. . . .  Never seeming to understand that we *do* understand their POV; we simply don't agree.

I guess if you're a hammer, *everything* looks like a nail, and deserves a whack, lol!

Same comment was made a decade ago by a local homegrown philosopher to a right-wingnut who was literally huffing, "How dare HIM, How DARE him!!!!!" of some long forgotten thing she'd perceived Clinton had done to her, and hers.

The local philospher has moved, and no longer has a radio show; and I don't listen to the station any more because the wingnut from Singer's Glen has not gone.  She's still huffing and chuffing and hammering at something. . . .

"None is arrogant, overbearing, boastful, or aloof. In !Kung terms these traits absolutely disqualify a person as a leader and may engender even stronger forms of ostracism. Another trait emphatically not found among traditional camp leaders is a desire for wealth or acquisitiveness. Their accumulation of material goods is never more, and is often much less, than the average accumulation of the other households in their camp."

When you look at leadership among h/g societies, what you find is that nobody can "sieze power." How can you control people who each have free access to everything they need? Food, water, shelter, companionship -- all are there for the taking in h/g existence. The result of this is that coercive power -- a form of power so ubiquitous in modern societies that we often forget it is merely one type of power -- is impractical. Nobody becomes a leader because they demand the position; someone becomes a leader when the others decide that he or she is someone they want to follow. In these societies, leadership is based on a bond of trust, humility, and sincerity -- not to mention the intellectual superiority to make wise decisions.

This term stems from President Theodore Roosevelt's reference to the White House as a "bully pulpit," meaning a terrific platform from which to persuasively advocate an agenda. Roosevelt often used the word "bully" as an adjective meaning superb/wonderful. Roosevelt also had political affiliation with the Progressive Party, nicknamed the "Bull Moose" party. It got the moniker when Roosevelt ran for President as its candidate in 1912, after declaring himself as "fit as a bull moose."

{Politics ain't beanbag, y'all...and bully pulpit doesn't mean being a *bully* as we know the word}

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LBJ knew how to use that pulpit:

Emboldened by his election by more votes than any president in history, Johnson prepared to inundate the 89th Congress with a flood of legislative proposals. Out of this congressional session came passage of a series of landmark programs: Medicare, Medicaid, Headstart, immigration reform, and the National Endowments for the Arts and the Humanities, among dozens of others. By the end of 1966 Congress had passed nearly 200 pieces of major legislation proposed by Johnson.

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Of course, I don't want Afghanistan to become Obama's Viet Nam.

California's advantages

By contrast, "California is already much further along in knowing exactly where its routes will go, down to within 10 ft., and we already have our programmatic EIR [Environment Impact Review] completed," says Emily Rusch, state director at the California Public Interest Group (CALPIRG).

Planning and engineering for an 800-mile system has been creeping forward in California for more than 13 years, the initial routes of which include Los Angeles to Anaheim, San Francisco to San Jose and the Central Valley, and Merced to Bakersfield.

There is also high public support. The bond measure was placed on the ballot by an unusual bipartisan coalition of more than two-thirds of the legislature and with strong support from Schwarzenegger. The $40 billion-plus price tag sounds ominous in shaky financial times, but proponents claim alternatives are twice that cost.

  There's a FULL MOON !!!

What's intriguing to me is that it's been recognized repeatedly that Dean, representing the democratic wing of the Democratic Party, was a relative moderate.  Yet even as savage a critic as Josh Frank understood that the party establishment went to elaborate lengths to suppress his revolt within the party during his presidential campaign, and won. 

Dean flirted with the idea of a third party after his primary defeat in Wisconsin, before Vice President Gore convinced him of the virtue of using the Democratic Party as a vehicle to promote liberalism, and Dean toiled tirelessly within the party after receiving this advice.  Yet this liberal, viewed as a mere moderate by Frank and others, even on this last vestige of his own website, trends way to the left of most of the party's leadership and influential members. 

I have consistently opposed third parties based on no principle other than the principle of winning.  Third party candidates lose.  However, the immediate problem posed by two party politics is illustrated by the huge influence wielded by so-called independents who, as has been pointed out, actually occupy a political center so mushy that it swings wildly from Democrat to Republican between election cycles.  In fact, Democratic Blue Dogs and Republican moderates are true independents, evidenced by the facility with which they can ideologically cross party lines.

I'll sign on to that.  I wonder if we could get a petition going with moveon.

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A prez doesn't have to break bones to be strong and effective.  I'm thinking that maybe Obama's a transitional prez, ushering in a new age of peace and diplomacy. He's certainly taking hits from all sides and the world is in turmoil.  He might be the link we need, but only for four years, until the country is truly ready for peace, human rights, the restoration of the Bill of Rights and the Rule of Law. JMO  Maybe he's the guy who helps this country grow up politically and morally.

Americans have to get very angry, sick and tired to back true change.  We're not quite there.  It's not enuf anymore to vote becuz the other guy/gal is so awful and the one running sounds so good.  Åt least I hope we're moving in that direction.

Howard promised us "more change" if we don't get a good bill.  I'm really wanting that "more change."

Hope, Prayer & 3-Run Homer Time

My main interest in the viability of a third party is a function of how poorly the two-party duopoly, in the words of Ralph Nader, currently serves a country that is divided 50/50 politically.  In election after election, the specter of runoffs and drawn out election contests, which began most dramatically in 2000, has become more and more common.  It has become increasingly clear that the most strident progressive to the most milquetoast moderate must cling to the the Democratic Party to ward off the lunatic fringe of the right wing.  Republicans, on the other hand, can purge their own party of its modest moderate faction, because independents predictably respond to their inner conservative whenever Democrats in power threaten to raise taxes and increase the size of government. 

Ultimately, these political tendencies aren't embodied in the form of two parties.  This not only explains the frustration voters express with their own parties, but also shows why little is accomplished legislatively.  The resulting balance of power has created a permanent impasse.  The effect of this impasse on government is ennervating.

any President who would do good and move the country forward will still be hated, mistrusted and spit on.  it doesn't matter what they do, there will always be those from all sides who are never satisfied with the direction of what's being done.  most humans don't have the patience, perserverance or foresight to let good things happen - to make things better.  that usually happens in spite the majority of us.

most change to legislation is just an experiment anyway - we seldom know for years just what will result and then much too often we change course long before the 'experiment' is complete.

Origin of the term

Charles Anderson Dana

Dictionaries report "mugguomp" was an Algonquian word meaning "person of importance" or "war leader." Charles Anderson Dana, the colorful newspaperman and editor of the now-defunct New York Sun, is said to have given the Mugwumps their political moniker. Dana made the term plural and derided them as amateurs and public moralists.

During the 1884 campaign, they were often portrayed as "fence-sitters," with part of their body on the side of the Democrats and the other on the side of the Republicans. (Their "mug" on one side of the fence, and their "wump" on the other.) Angry Republicans like Roscoe Conkling sometimes hinted they were homosexual, calling them "Man milliners."

Vice President Al Gore is on Rachel tonight. 

spent the last two days tending my 2 1/2 year old niece while her Mom and Dad were busy bringing her baby sister into the world and I'm beat!! 

hugs to all.  ;)

That's all she wrote.  Another bought and paid for World Series.  Sure wish Boston would have hung in there.

Philadelphia 1, NY Yankees 7

.

Philadelphia 3, NY Yankees 7

Boston 89 Minnesota 88

4+ minutes

-----

BTW most Bostonians want Phili, but the NYY have that certain something for me.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/fiorina-announces-her-gop-candidacy-for-us-senate.html

Good time to send a few bucks to Barbara

the thoughts on leadership.  I, too, with Puddle want a different kind of leadership than the unitary executive, the strong man.  I'd ideally like to see rational discourse again, and interestingly enough Al Gore wrote a book called, The Assault on Reason.  I've not read it, but my husband has, and the title indicates the situation.

What a decent man Al Gore is, honest, thoughtful, kind.  He wasn't a great politician, was more of an introvert and technocrat.  Our politics seems to self-select certain personality types, which leaves out others such as Al Gore.  I think a greater variety of personality types would be welcome.  We don't need a government full of one type of extroversion.

I think the ethos has to change, and maybe the recession is helping that.  When you are worried about keeping a job, paying rent or a mortgage, learn that the credit card companies will take all the interest they can, we become less profligate in spending, have to make some decisions about what's important. 

And, there's never been a time when there hasn't been a major problem at least for some people on the planet.  I think we have to have the courage and the discipline and the patience to try to solve or deal with the problems of our time out of gratitude and a promise to the next seven generations.

Good Night friends.

PEGGEE sci-fi project that is never going to be funded in this economy.  LOL 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/PGE-Wants-to-Beam-Solar-Energy-to-Earth.html

note: The Great Valley Center is a GOP shell non-profit organization. They have very little or no accountability with their usage of public funds. They also offer training academy classes for the GOP's FARM Team candidates in partnership with the Chamber of Commerce.

PEGGEE's CA Smartmeter program is presently under investigation.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/smart-grid-backlash/

Hold elections in odd number years without the prestige of the Presidency and Congress being on the line.

Score a few in 09 for the rethug diehards beating a few moribund state Demo parties who can't GOTV with Candidates who shy away from Dean / Grayson candor.  If you're a Democrat, then be a democrat.

Oh Virginia, handing yourself over to a Regents University/Pat Robertson protege. The Old Dominion electorate acts skitzo in its recent elections.

Good comments, I especially like

By Pat in Colorado

<

I agree.  I scanned half way through (or so) the thread and found a sensed balance

Good to know

http://democracyforamerica.com/blog_posts/30691-hunger-strike#1278926

Thanks

The Israeli navy has seized a cargo ship carrying hundreds of tonnes of weapons, including rockets and rocket propelled grenades, apparently from Iran.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/05/2733594.htm?section=world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehZdNxAoac8

His DC nickname is Yosemite Sam.  He truly hates the Sierra Club.

A $112 million settlement involving alleged drug kickbacks that the Justice Dept. announced with the nation's largest nursing home pharmacy and a generic drug manufacturer on Nov. 3 is part of a wide-ranging investigation of suspected Medicaid fraud by the pharmaceutical industry. Critics say the continuing probe, which involves Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) and other major drugmakers, highlights what they describe as an industry practice of paying money to outfits that provide drugs to consumers, in return for preferential treatment.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2009/db2009114_700374.htm